F4U-1D carrier Takeoffs porked? The proof!!

[Soulyss]

It's been my experience that lowering flaps during the take off, it's easier to get airborn than deploying them completely at the start.

[OntosMk1]

Yes i agree that the F4U-1D is a tad bit porked but you must also remember a couple of things.

#1: At the time the F4U-1Ds started entering mainline service the Navy had started using catapolts.

#2: You almost NEVER heard of an A/C taking off, unassisted, from a CV with a full War load AND full Tanks. The A/C's were just too heavy.

So in conclusion, until you see AH start emplementing Steam catapolts on the CVs dont expect to up from CVs with full fuel and full War load (i.e 2k bombs and Rocks)
I usually up with a full War load with %75 fuel. Going full flaps with WEp on. You can make it off the deck and not stall out. You just gotta ride the stall horn for a couple of presious seconds
Adapt and over come....You cant expect the people at HTC to get everything right. Excuses aside keep throwing in intelligent and Accurate input for A/C and they'll take notice.

[F4UDOA]

Heya Gents

MAC,

I have been saying the same thing since 1.08. Something changed in the F4U FM. It did used to be able to takeoff much easier I'm sure.

Soulyss,

If you could please film your takeoff I would really appreciate it. Either post it or email it to me. I want to see what speed you are at when you lift off. Also try it your way once and then try it sitting full flap without rolling apply throttle/WEP and go.
I have no idea how you make your A/C roll back mine never does although I hear some people say they do it. I don't want to trick it into taking off I want to do it by the book and see if it is possible.

Verm,

I started off by testing on a medium field with no wind to test takeoff runs with and without flaps. With auto takeoff turned on each notch of flap will cause a longer run. But this is ok because auto takeoff works at the same speed everytime. So I know the flaps add drag. Then I tested with manual takeoff and I was able to lift off sooner with flaps than witout. So I know they create lift.

However I don't know if the ratio is right.

My thought is that the problem is the lack of acceleration to takeoff speed do to excess drag in the airframe not including the flaps. I think it hurts the overall accleration of the F4U even in a clean config. Post 1.08 the F4U-1D got very draggy. I said it then and I stick with it. Something changed weather they intended to do it or not.

An A-20G should not wing a drag race with an f4U.

[Mitsu]

I have a simple question...
Didn't USN use a catapult at carrier-takeoff?

BTW - B-25s could take off from carrier in first air raid against Japan homeland...this plane is heavier than A-20.

[Wilbus]

The A-20 not only made it off with Rockets and bombs and fuel but made it easily. This A/C out accelerates the F4U-1 like it is standing still. Even with full flaps it made it to 100MPH + by the end of the deck. The F4U could not reach 90MPH!!!.


The F4U was pupose built for short takeoff runs. I keep saying the accleration is porked maybe this will stir some interest. An A-20 with bombs should not out accelerate an F4U-1D off of a carrier deck!!

Twins in AH are porked to hell. They all outaccelerate the single engine fighters, they all outturn many of the single engine fighters. The A20 can more then hold its own against any plane in a turn fight but the very best as the spit or better. Same thing goes for mossie, P38 and 110. They outaccelerate almost everything in dives. Don't know what's up with that.

Nice info on the F4u btw.

[Mitsu]

I hate AKAK and DblTrubl's P-38 when fighting in Ki.

[Booky]

Guys, F4UDOA, and others. I agree that my beloved Hog needs some tweaking in its FM but I hardly think it is impossible to take off of a CV.

9 of 10 times I can get off a CV with full loadout. granted I use WEP and 2 or 3 notch flaps, not sure if you guys do.

But I agree that it is way different than it used to be and maybe needs to at least be looked at.

regards guys and gals.

Booky

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by F4UDOA
Here is why I am sure that somethings porked.

Compare the speed of these three A/C at the end of a 556Ft carrier deck. All A/C full flap.

3. F4U-1D = 88MPH

Respectfully, are you reading my posts?  You Don't use or need full flaps when taking a Corsair off deck. Too much drag from full flaps.......not going to repeat myself again.

[F4UDOA]

OntosMK1,

The carrier we have in AH is the USS Essex or at least an Essex class Carrier. I confirmed this with HT.

There is no Catapult on these carrier sduring WW2.

Here is a pick of the USS Essex launching an F4U at Okinawa in 1945. No catapult


 

[Mitsu]

Hmmm, tweaking F4U's FM? I hope HT tweaks Ki-61's FM too.
First of all, adverse yaw moment is too much when doing rolls in Ki-61. Ki-61 had a frise-type ailerons to restrain adverse yaw and to get lighter aileron moment. btw Ki-61's control system was all rod type except rudder.

http://www.mountainflying.com/adverse.htm
about adverse yaw and frise-type aileron.

And Ki-61's maneuverability is pretty porked in a dive.
It's not copy of Bf109...

In R/L, Ki-61 pilot could chase jinking P-47 at dive (P-47s often used this tactics when Ki-43s are chasing them. because Ki-43 doesn't have a durability of dive). One of pilot said "Ki-61's maneuverability was great even in 850km/h dive".

Sorry for hijacking F4UDOA, but I hope to improve Ki-61's FM like Hog.

[F4UDOA]

Redtail and Booky,

Please film this for me and post it or email it please!!

100% fuel ammo and 2k bombs and rockets.

Try it once full flaps. Redtail the Flaps are suppsed to help not hurt, that is the problem.

Film it, post it.

Wilbus,

Dude you are so right. I tested the following.

B-26
Mossie
A-20
BF110G2
P-38L

Only the B-26 I couldn't get off the deck. All others made no problem full bombs and rockets.

All were superior in acceleration than any single I tested in speed reached at the end of the carrier deck. Definitely something up there. Very strange!

The BF110 had a torque to the left. Also strange?

[F4UDOA]

CC Oedipus,

HT said it is 556FT from the spawn point. The actual deck is almost 900ft

[Fancy]

Well F4UDOA, you may be, as you stated, a big whiner, but you are the most well researched whiner in the books.  

[Maverick]

F4UDOA,

Nice job but don't stop there. Im my experiance if you load up all the carrier AC to max and try to take off you are not likely to make it either. I cannot get a F6F or F4F up loaded. Using little game "tricks" like dumping a notch of flap at the end of the deck is not the cure, it is indicative of a modeling problem as that was not the way it was done in RL.

[Red Tail 444]

F4UDOA, et al,

heres a film I made a few weeks ago. This flm is part of the VF27th Hellcats qualifications for command.

Each member of the squad is required to load a fully loaded corsair off a CV then land it before we can participate in Squad Operations.

I have a cast on my stick (right) hand, so I admit it's a little hairy..but, I got airborne. The cast comes off this week, so maybe I'll post a better film.

Again, I appreciate your research

Gainsie