time once again for the toughen the CV "discussion"

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Apache
Case in point. Twice last night, as dozens of folks were enjoying themselves in naval air warfare simulation, some numbnuts' (thats plural) suicides the CV with Typhoons and Peee51's. Once the opposing CV, once ours.

And what makes you think that your fun in furballing is worth more, than their fun in sinking the fleet? Not all people wants same thing from this game, and not all people think exactly as you do. Make one step out of your personality, and try to understand this. In my understanding AH shall strive for finding a ballance to be apropriate for many people who has a different vision of what game is like, and what it shall be like.

I think that 8000lb is a fine figure for a fleet. It gives quite long furballs, and also do not make cv a super weapon from a strat perspective.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Turbot


I did not correctly understand your question.  I thought you were saying people had to suicide to kill a CV.

Ok, I got it. Still, if you know the way to sink a fleet easily and alone with a small risk, let me know please. I found it is a very hard task for even a very expirienced attacker or bomber pilot.

Torpedo attacks works bad if you are not in a big group, or if you not go to close to fleet and thus risking to be shot by acks. Even then fleet can avoid them, because torpedo are not fast. They are very hard to aim also. Topredo boats and planes are a game of luck mostly, with a very low percentage of kills to the % of deployed torpedo.

Bombers could effectively kill fleets from big alt before, but with new aims they are not effective unless you are low enough to be a target for acks.

Only way for a jabo to get his load on cv without much risk is to get alt, dive and drop bombs from a 5-7k, where then he has a chance to avoid acks without much risk. Problem that fleet rebuilds itself, so you get eggs, climb to 10k, dive bomb, go to field, and there you need some time to climb again. Usually in time you get enough blow to ship it rebuilds itself and it starts again. And any pilot who man flak at cv can get you any moment when you dive.

The way I get fleet is small mission of 10 tiffies with 1 or 2 cover planes. You get them at about 10-12k, then chop throttle, and divebomb in pack (so acks are firing not at a single aircraft and chances to survive are higher) then drop eggs at 7-4k, and go away. Usually if pilots are expirienced loss ratio is very low, 0-2 from 12, if unexpirienced pilots and manned flaks it can be as high as 50-70%. I personally always instruct pilots that mission is not suicide, and instruct them how to stay alive.

Again, for a sigle plane killing cv which is not softened already and staying alive is very hard. If you know the way to make it easy let me know.

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Fariz


Where I said that? All thread is here, show me pls.

It was just a language problem (I am assuming English is not your first language).  Don't worry about it.   My confusion was from your reply ("can you open me this secret?").

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Turbot


It was just a language problem (I am assuming English is not your first language).  Don't worry about it.   My confusion was from your reply ("can you open me this secret?").

It is not, even not a second. Wish I knew it ok, but I am a very bad learner when it comes to languages.

[john9001]

perk the CV.

ok , whoever sunk lazs CV last night and ruined a good furball and caused this thread, confess.

just wondering lazs , when your in a good furball do you ever land or do you" fly til you die", other furballers can answer also.

44MAG

[Wotan]

theres no bug fariz its easy as ah hell.

I the Scenario Hostile Shores my flight was assigned to divebomb the enemy cv in 190f8s.

I went off line practiced until I could do it. Then did over and over in the main. 90% without dieing. The last time I sank a cv was with kirin, orel and a few other guys in the AK map. We all upped flew to the cv dropped our bombs sunk it and rtb'd. Guess what no one got killed. Did we cheat, exploit a bug, just get lucky??? Nope.

You may believe its tough but it aint. After watching those typh raids of yours, where it takes 5 augers to kill 1 ack I can understand why you think that.

The only thing that will stop suicide dweebs is making the cv undestructable.

[lazs2]

44 mag..  surviving is not the end all to be all to me.   I do survive a lot and I will ditch or land in order to rob someone of a kill if I am damaged (which is most of the time).  I have been knwn to auger if a long way from home and out of ammo and have taken no damage.

You can go to the "pilot score" page and type in my name or any other of us notorious furballers to see just how we fly.
lazs

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Fariz
Bombers could effectively kill fleets from big alt before, but with new aims they are not effective unless you are low enough to be a target for acks.

It is harder to learn, and more of a trouble to do, but bombers are indeed still very effective.

Originally posted by Fariz Only way for a jabo to get his load on cv without much risk is to get alt, dive and drop bombs from a 5-7k, where then he has a chance to avoid acks without much risk.[/b]

This is true.  When I was new in Aces High (but experienced from Warbirds) I sunk my first CV in this way.

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Wotan
theres no bug fariz its easy as ah hell.

I the Scenario Hostile Shores my flight was assigned to divebomb the enemy cv in 190f8s.

I went off line practiced until I could do it. Then did over and over in the main. 90% without dieing. The last time I sank a cv was with kirin, orel and a few other guys in the AK map. We all upped flew to the cv dropped our bombs sunk it and rtb'd. Guess what no one got killed. Did we cheat, exploit a bug, just get lucky??? Nope.

You may believe its tough but it aint. After watching those typh raids of yours, where it takes 5 augers to kill 1 ack I can understand why you think that.

The only thing that will stop suicide dweebs is making the cv undestructable.

Look same thread where I explain how we do it usually. You will see not much difference from what you explain.

That "suicide Fariz raids" is a myth. First of all I deack fields alone and easily, in couple path. If stats were available you would see that there are very few people who has more acks killed during tour. Second, I plan my raids the way, that same people get 2 or 3 fields often with refueling. It will never be possible if they suicided on first field. And last, who you sink will join the missions, if they died or were ordered to suicide? People are not crazy, in most part then want action, to get result and to land it so every one can see it. And loses to acks are very low, and normally comes to the unexpirienced pilots.

Sometime I make a raid which are suicidal though, or which I know that death rate will be very high. It is not happen any often, may be 1 time for 20 or 30 missions, because normally you do not need to put it all on risk by dieing. Plane which stay alive and get their targets are more worthy than planes which get their target but die.

Unfortunatly I have no stats available for my missions. I think that kill/loss ration is 3:1 to my mission favour, though it is something hard to check. Normally kills comes from vulch, though getting low level planes with energy advantage is not hard either. I know exactly that my mission success rate is  over 85%.

I still do not understand where that suicide talks are comming from. I think, one of a main reasons is a defenders frustration, which has no way to opose the organized raid, and prefer to explain it by a dweebiness of attackers than by their better organization or something. Nothing new, you get insults more often, than . Second is probably raids of newbies, who gather other newbies, and all die in acks.

Anyway, I do not play for strat for a quite long time, and made total of 5-7 missions for the last month. So I find it very funny that people keep jumping on me on channel 1 every time when bishops mission strike anything, blaming in every sort of dweebiness

[J_A_B]

Fariz--

Keep in mind that when one or two guys sink a carrier, they're often depriving 20 or 30 people of their fun.  It's a numbers thing.

Of course, the carriers wouldn't be becessary if the bases in the rest of the arena were closer (distant bases promotes timid flying), but that's a different issue  


J_A_B

[Preon1]

Originally posted by Fariz


And can you open me this secret? Film it and send to me please, will apreciate the lesson from someone, who knows the game better

Will do Fariz

[Apache]

Fariz, JAB said it better than I. Although I can see where the implication may lay, my intent wasn't to state my fun was more important than others. Simply stating my position.

[Preon1]

I'm not certain here but maybe there are some history buffs out there that can help...

How many pounds of bombs dropped directly on the deck of an aircraft carrier did it NORMALLY take to kill the thing?  Somehow I recall stories of single pilots getting confirmations of kills on boats for dropping one or two light bombs on them.

If eight thousand pounds isn't enough to sink a carrier then I have no problem upping the requirement, but somehow I think it sounds like a lot of overkill.  I prefer the option of adding a couple carriers to the fleet, it may not be historicly accurate but, given the interests of the MA, it will be more fun.  Plus if carriers respawned so long as another carrier was afloat then it would take trully historical mass raids to kill the boats.

[llyr69]

J_A_B:

20-30 furballers and no one can be bothered to defend their CV?

[Fariz]

Originally posted by J_A_B
Fariz--

Keep in mind that when one or two guys sink a carrier, they're often depriving 20 or 30 people of their fun.  It's a numbers thing.

Of course, the carriers wouldn't be becessary if the bases in the rest of the arena were closer (distant bases promotes timid flying), but that's a different issue  

J_A_B

Will be interesting to have a vote on this. How many people who fight at field attacked by carrier are there for a furball, and how many defend field as a strat value, and thus happy that fleet gone? What you say 30:1 is not true for sure. If it was that many furballers, then captures would never happen. Thing is around 7:3 to the action/score people favour over strat players in my expirience, though it is something which can be checked by vote. After vote will finish, we can get back to it.