time once again for the toughen the CV "discussion"

[lazs2]

preon... as widewing stated... no land based bomber ever killed a CV.    If realism is what we want then we need to make it so that land based bombers can't kill CV's

Again, i bow to widewing on this.. he has some good ideas.    I would merely toughen em up to get semi realistic results... he would use realistic methods to get realistic results.

and apache...  certainly your fun is no more (or less) important than others but I think we can all agree that my fun is the most important thing in AH.  

What a happy happy place it would be if everyone started every sortie thinking "what can I do this sortie to make things pleasant for lazs"

lazs

[J_A_B]

7:3 sounds about right Fariz.  

I'm not overly concerned with the CV issue anyhow.  I feel that the general design of the AH MA is the problem, not CV toughness.  SO I guess I really have little to add on this issue  

J_A_B

[llyr69]

IIRC the Brits, if they didn't lose them, had them (CV's) pounded by land based bombers in the Med. Any history buffs care to comment on supply runs to Malta?

As far as damage resistance is concerned, I know there was a marked difference between the US CV's-teak deck & greater AC capacity and the Brit CV's-armored flight deck and much smaller AC capacity.

Just my US $.02

[Apache]

Originally posted by lazs2
preon... as widewing stated... no land based bomber ever killed a CV.    If realism is what we want then we need to make it so that land based bombers can't kill CV's

Again, i bow to widewing on this.. he has some good ideas.    I would merely toughen em up to get semi realistic results... he would use realistic methods to get realistic results.

and apache...  certainly your fun is no more (or less) important than others but I think we can all agree that my fun is the most important thing in AH.  

What a happy happy place it would be if everyone started every sortie thinking "what can I do this sortie to make things pleasant for lazs"

lazs

Quite right lazs. In the official BK handbook, the page for proper DVB protocol was stuck to the lazs etiquette page. Darn pictures.

[john9001]

""""... no land based bomber ever killed a CV""""

true, but did land based bombers ever attack CV's and other ships......yes
could a land based bomber sink a CV.......yes
battle ships could be sunk by bombers, england lost 2 BB's in the pacific from bombers and torps.the IJN and USN lost many ships to airplanes.

lazs , we all know what your agenda is , you just want to furball, ( thats fine with me) but don't try to drag in some historical reasons why CV's should not be sunk.

just because it "never happened"does not mean it could not happen.

44MAG

[hazed-]

THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS TO MAKE IT IMPREGNABLE TO BOMBS BUT VULNERABLE TO TORPEDOES.

if they want to suicide make them do it in TBMS and JU88s

[poopster]

I know this may sound stupid or whatever, but for me, the fight IS the only reason I'm there. The fight is not a means to an end (i.e. taking a base) it IS the end.

I'll add something to that.  A CV fight is different from every other fight in the arena. They're rare, sometimes go a week without having the great pleasure of indulging.

CV fights for the most part are devoid of the usual MA planes. You don't see La7's, or 51's or Spit IX's or 190's....

Those that venture into this fight to "cherry pick" make a few attempts get down into it and get killed.

You see blue planes, LOTS of blue planes with a sprinkle of Zero's and Seafires. Early and mid-war planes.

Ever notice that when a CV is near a base, the planes taking off to meet the enemy are BLUE PLANES TOO ??????????

Why IS that ?? Isn't that strange ????

Us blue plane jockeys are just looking for the opportunity to strap it up and have at it. squeakkittys, Hogs, FM2's, Zero's and F4F's, have a fight and have a blast.

Leave the "pickers" and vulchers to play somewhere else. Ya gotta fight to come here

Urchin said it best. We're there for the fight.

Unfortunatly a couple of pilots can send it all down the drain. I KILLED THE CV !!! I SAVED THE WORLD !!! Wanna weigh my balls ??

THAT is unfortunate.

A CV fight is nirvana for us blue plane lovers. There is NOTHING better. Get in the thick of it, kill with abandon, land'um and wipe the goo off your windscreen and do it again..

Flying the edge....

All in one itty bitty part of the map that appears on occasion.

Please don't save us from the big bad CV. Us blue guys have the situation well in hand. ( on both sides )

But if perchance, you want a fight for a change of pace,  you'll know where to find one.

We are very accomodating

Your consideration in this matter is greatly appreciated.

[john9001]

i guess the only way to solve the different ideas of game play is to have a "fighter town " arena, 2 or 3 bases close to each other , the bases can't be captured or damaged, the furballers can up , fight, die , win, reup all night long without the strat guys ruining their fun, how about it hitec , can we find a little arena for the furballers?

44MAG

[poopster]

44MAG, score pages are a wonderful thing when you want to check up on someone.

Try it. Very informative.

You'll find out when when someones blowin smoke, and when they're not.

[Sixpence]

CV's were easy to sink, as was posted. Lizard made a good point in that a seperate fleet with no CV's should do the amphibious part. They have that in the slot map. The problem is keeping the CV out of sight. What makes that difficult is people start manning the cruiser guns and the enemy sees them shooting, it gives the position of the CV away. I think they should toughen the cruiser if anything.

[Widewing]

Originally posted by poopster


I'll add something to that.  A CV fight is different from every other fight in the arena. They're rare, sometimes go a week without having the great pleasure of indulging.

Poop, you would have loved the brawl we had tonight. Our CV haunted the Bish for 4 hours and was still going strong when I logged. About 10 Rooks and an equal number of Bish were having a ball. Well, the Rooks were anyway.

I started out with a CHog, but found the opposition were generally noobs. So, after clubbing 7 of them I felt bad taking advantage of their inexperience. So, I grabbed my trusty SBD and flew it as a fighter for the balance of the evening. Chasing down formations of Ju 88s, furballing with Spits and Mustangs. Great fun! Even found time to drop a few 1,000 pounders on the base too. Finally, I had to quit as it was very late. But Gawd, it was as good as these things get!

Once again, the SBD lived up to its nickname of "Slow But Deadly". I lost two of them, but a rediculous number of Bish were splashed. Try the SBD as a fighter, you'll be amazed at how good it is, and how easy it is to fly and fight with it. It's a furballin' monster!

My regards,

Widewing

[MwKAZ]

I agree that something should be done with the CV's, but I not sure what.  Sometimes when I don't particular want to fly or have some others things that I am doing, I jump on a CV and "ride" with it for awhile in a 5".  I have seen numerous times that 1 or 2 guys will fly for 20-30 mins just to do suicide runs.  Like last night, the CV I was on was heading away from any enemy bases.  Heck, the closest one was about a 30 min flight, then came in a P47 jabo for his suicide run.  It got to the point that I could leave the computer and time it to come back in 28 mins when he was around 10k out.

For someone who takes the time, there are a few "alleys" to approach from that cuts off firing angles for manned ack guns.  But I do see it alot, the CV is nowhere near anything, a extremely long flight from nearest enemy base and one will still keep coming and suicide over and over till CV dead.

To do it when enemy CV is offshore and it needs to be taken out to help curb the massive attacking plane onslaught, that I can understand.  But the other?. People that are into stats/scores, suicide runs don't pay off, especially since most of the time it won't even get recorded because the hit effect takes place after they have died.  Those that just want something to do?  I guess it's their "dime", but to fly forever just to ram?  

Don't particularly understand the thought train there, but then again I don't have too.  But it does happen way more than some think.

[lazs2]

44mag..  I would not really care for the seperation of community that a fightertown would bring.    I see nothing wrong with toughening up the cv's or making a bigger group or any of widewings suggestions.    It doesn't seem to bother you that no aircraft opperations at any base ever were stopped when their carport was bombed but.... we have that concession for gameplay... fighters are out of action when a (LOL) building is blown up!    And now you want to quibble about how maybe it was possible (even tho it never happened) that a land based bomber should be able to take out cv's?   Heck... if we have the choice... make it realistic results.

if the cvs were tougher or the rebuild time short then.... a lone suicide bomber would get his bomb in and have to re up... the cv would rebuild by the time he got back and he would have to do it all over again with the same non result.    If a dedicated group wanted to kill the CV they would still be able to.    
lazs

[Ripsnort]

Lazs said:
"preon... as widewing stated... no land based bomber ever killed a CV. "

Well, never "killed" but certainly damaged them,...

(e) A group of 16 United States Army "Flying Fortresses" carried out high-level bombing attacks, scoring 3 hits on enemy carriers. One carrier was left
smoking heavily.

Source:
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq81-11.htm

[lazs2]

rip.... no carrier was sunk.   The hits were not even verified.   If all the hits claimed were real then.... we certainly need to toughen up the carriers.   I also believe that this was the last time that heavy bombers even attempted to attack CV's.
lazs