Why the Tiger?

[Sixpence]

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great. But a T-34 and a sherman could have really helped in the events. A russian front with T-34's&m16's against panzers&ostwinds would be interesting.And I realize you can sub the t34 with the panzer and give the german side the tiger, but I needed something to whine about:D

BTW, haven't seen ground vehicles in an event yet.Is it because there is not a map to use, or has it been tried b4 and doesn't work?

[FDutchmn]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great. But a T-34 and a sherman could have really helped in the events. A russian front with T-34's&m16's against panzers&ostwinds would be interesting.And I realize you can sub the t34 with the panzer and give the german side the tiger, but I needed something to whine about:D
 

if i remember correctly, the t-34 and the sherman are coming... i think with the release of the tiger...

[Dowding (Work)]

We had an event that was vehicle based  - Afrika Corps - set in the desert in 1942. It ran in late 2000 if I remember correctly. I enjoyed it.

The problem then was that hispanos could destroy a tank in one pass, so we had spitfires killing panzers with their guns. We also had tiffies substituting Beaufighters, and this was before the Tiffie's FM was reviewed -  which gave it a slower roll rate. They were pretty tough, as you can imagine.

Anyway, some people still maintain the gv damage modelling is porked. I don't know whether it is, but I believe we would need at least the T-34 and Sherman to really get a ground war rolling.

Imagine Kursk - just need G-series Stuka with gondola cannons, Pe-2, LaGG, MiG 3 and He-111 and we'd have a great time.

[Wilbus]

Downding, try this. Take an M16, find a Panzer (problem is getting within 50 cal range) then riddle him, won't take long to take out his tower and tracks from 1000 yards or so. I did it last night, couldn't kill him but disabled everything except the hull MG (which he eventually got me with as I started driving circles around him to teas him).

But it is still porked, 50 cal or Hispano plane can easily take out panzers. This is also the reason, I, and many others think that the Tiger might not be usefull at all as all that is needed right now is a P51 to come strafe it with 50 cal.

As for the question "Why The Tiger?" It is that HTC want something to spend Veichle perks on I think, and the Tiger is a good choice for this. Panther would be cool too.

[Dowding (Work)]

I can't be arsed, wilbus. I only play Aces High for the scenarios really, and TOD, CAP etc. The MA bores me stupid.  So, I'll take your word for it.

But the any issues with the gv model are more than made up for with the 20mm depleted uranium gattling cannon mounted on the panzer. I always take them out with bombs these days.

[jordi]

Originally posted by Sixpence


BTW, haven't seen ground vehicles in an event yet.Is it because there is not a map to use, or has it been tried b4 and doesn't work?

The Sicily Scenario in April had LTV's AND GV's used in the event. The Allies had to LAND Trops on the island and capture a base. Then each frame afterwords both sides could use GV's to capture or recapture bases.

There were some good ground fighting going on.

[Ripsnort]

As mentioned in a million other posts, the damage modeling needs serious help, just the other night, I had 6 o'clk position on a tank 200 yards away, hit him 6 times in the turret and the rear gas tank area, his engine dead, he turned and fired one shot hit the frontal armour of my tank and killing me instantly.

[Puck]

Originally posted by Wilbus
Downding, try this. Take an M16, find a Panzer (problem is getting within 50 cal range) then riddle him, won't take long to take out his tower and tracks from 1000 yards or so. I did it last night, couldn't kill him but disabled everything except the hull MG (which he eventually got me with as I started driving circles around him to teas him)

Funny that.  I have two GV kills this tour; one is a panzer.  He was busy shooting at one of our panzers, so I was able to sneak up on his blind side and take out his track and engine as I weant around back.  Must have damaged the turret as well.  On the next pass I got stopped about five meters from his right side, stopped my engine, and proceeded to unload all the rest of my ammo.  His hull gun couldn't move far enough to hit me.

After I ran out of bullets I restarted my engine, drove around behind him, and headed home.

Got to wonder what that sounded like on his FE, though.  About 1000 rounds of fifty cal hitting him at point blank range.  I was close enough to see the hit sprites for all four guns show up seperatley.  Wish I'd recorded that...  

[Puck]

Semi related, I was watching the History channel's Thunderbolts, and one of the pilots interviewed mentioned they'd bounce their fiftys under German tanks.  Took em out quick, since there wasn't much armor on the bottom.

Since I actually survived pouring 1000 rounds of .50 into the side of a tank at point blank range I suspect ricochets aren't modeled, which is a shame.  Be fun to take out GVs that way rather than by direct fire.

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Puck
Semi related, I was watching the History channel's Thunderbolts, and one of the pilots interviewed mentioned they'd bounce their fiftys under German tanks.  Took em out quick, since there wasn't much armor on the bottom.

Since I actually survived pouring 1000 rounds of .50 into the side of a tank at point blank range I suspect ricochets aren't modeled, which is a shame.  Be fun to take out GVs that way rather than by direct fire.

What uber material did Germans make roads out of that would not let a  bullet penetrate (to allow a richocette)?  

Then what softer material did they make tanks out of that would then not allow richocette and instead allow penetration (even with a now lower energy and deformed projectile)?

Doesn't make much sense even on the surface (haha) of it - does it?

[Wilbus]

There are many stories about P47's taking out tanks by bounzing the 50 cals, I believe non of them. If the roads were so good that they actually bounced off them, the bullets would get deformed and flat, thus they wouldn't penetrate the armor although very thin. 50 cal's won't penetrate much armor, they definatly won't take out a Panzer 4 or larger.

[Ripsnort]

None weapon owners above? (Shrugs)  Take a hunting rifle, fire it at an angle on any dirt road, it richochets.

[Turbot]

Originally posted by Ripsnort
None weapon owners above? (Shrugs)  Take a hunting rifle, fire it at an angle on any dirt road, it richochets.

Then answer second question    first is only a set-up for first

[Puck]

Originally posted by Turbot


What uber material did Germans make roads out of that would not let a  bullet penetrate (to allow a richocette)?

Let's see.  Uber materials that would deflect bullets.

Water comes to mind in a hurry.  Then again, when you get into orbital mechanics you start bouncing very solid objects off air, too.

Actually the projectile doesn't deform much at all.  Bounce a ping-pong ball off a bowling ball and see what happens.  If the angle of incidence is low enough it will just skip off the ground (dirt, concrete, just about any surface).  As the angle of incidence approches 90 degrees you get less of an elastic collision and more energy is actually transmitted into the ground, thereby deforming the bullet and reducing energy.

This is pretty basic physics.

[Puck]

Oh, and the second question.  These are 50 cal AP rounds to begin with, and the armor on the bottom of a tank tends to be just about thick enough to stop a mosquito from stabbing the tank commander in the butt.

There was a hatch under there up until the M1A1, and it wasn't real thick.  I've burned holes through 3/8" cold rolled steel with a 30 cal, I suspect the penetration of a 50 AP would be slightly higher.

AFIK those stories survive the purely physical sanity check.