The Shooting Star

[AKcurly]

It seems like I read the opinion (here) that the ME-262 was superior (flight characteristics) to the shooting star.

I've been flying a P51D a lot lately and it twigged me to skim through Yeager's book again.  I figured I would find some interesting pony stories.

Yeager was stationed at Wright near the end of the war and as flight maintenance officer, got to fly everything they had ... including captured planes.

Here are a few of his remarks:

1) The 262 & shooting star had identical range, top speed, acceleration and rate of climb.  There were 4 p-80s in in Europe in 1945.

2) The FW 190 was the only plane among the captured German and Japanese fighters that was in the same league with the mustang.  He didn't specify which 190 ... probably the d9.

3) Yeager in speaking of Bob Hoover: "He loved practical jokes.  He went over to a little airport in Dayton and signed up for flying lessons.  He took the course taught by a really sharp-looking blonde and when the time came for him to solo, a bunch of us went out to watch.  He took off, climbed above the field, then dove straight down, did a roll and barely missed the hangars, looped and spinned, and turned everything loose.  His instructor hid her face in her hands and almost passed out, but when she saw us standing in our uniforms and laughing like hell, she knew she had been had."

AKcurly

[john9001]

four P-80's in europe?....we want P-80's...we want P-80's...when do we get P-80's

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by john9001:
four P-80's in europe?....we want P-80's...we want P-80's...when do we get P-80's

Whoa!  We don't need no steenking shooting star!  We need Japanese Bombers; we need stukas with sirens; we need all kinds of stuff, but not a shooting star.  

My question was aimed at performance characteristics!

AKcurly

[AN]

AKcurly:
----------------------------------------
...we need stukas with sirens...
----------------------------------------

Yeah!

anRky
<wipes drool off lower lip>

[Westy MOL]

Man, I wish we had the search feature still working. We had a good discussion in this forumn, about two or three months ago, about the ME-262, P80 and

 The P-80 edged the ME-262 in about every category; climb, maneuverability, speed, range, reliability and max altitude. Just not in fire power. But even there the two had different armaments based on different philosophies. The ME-262 with 30mm which worked well against the endless bomber formations and the P-80's fiffty calibres were good for pursuit and fighter-fighter combat.

 Westy

[Dowding]

The Meteor Mk.III is the only Allied jet with any grounds for addition, IMO. At least two squadrons were equipped with it and were stationed on the continent from January 1945 onwards. 210 were built during the war, plus about 20 Mk.1s.

It's a shame the RAF didn't slacken their ROE earlier, when there were still Me.262s around. It would have been the first jet vs jet fighter combat in the world.

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

[Zigrat]

the real reason why the p-80 would edge out the me-262 is the lack of rare ore in germany late in the war due to the bombing. the jumos sucked because they couldnt burn at high enough temperatures like the allied engines could since the turbines were steel and steel makes toejamty turbine blades.

other than the engines, the 262 would kick the bellybutton of a shooting star

[Westy MOL]

Well, if it had better engines maybe it could have. Big IF. It was not just the metalurgy that they Germans didn't have. Besides the sweep on the wings being wrong for mach flight they also had an inferior engine design to the English (and hence US). But saying "what if" the ME-262 had had better engines is sort of like imaginging the P38 had it been produced with late versions of the Merlin or Griffons  
 
 Westy

 Westy

[Kieran]

P-80 woulda owned the 262. I remember the conversation, so I place my standard disclaimer...

 

There should be no P-80 in AH!  

[DingHao2]

By the way, there WAS a p-38 with Merlin engines: the P-38N...only 1 produced as a testbed.

[Hobodog]

Originally posted by Westy MOL:
Man, I wish we had the search feature still working.
 Westy

 http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=search

[Gtoraii]

Ding_Hao
 I have read everything I can get my hands on about P-38 and never heard of one modified with the Merlin. Were did you hear/read this? Did they give figures for how it performed? Was it 2 stage 2 speed supercharged like the P51 or was it turboed like it was with the Alison’s?
If this came from a book or magazine source could you give me the title name and date?

[ispar]

I remember that conversation... I was forced to defend the honor of not only the P-80 but also the United States from some dweeb who not only insisted that the Me-262 was superior (by virtue of swept wings and ingenuity and little else) but also that the P-80 was an inferior design accepted by the nation because of some sort of economic plot by Lockheed Corp and the AAC. The implication was that the US chose the P80 because Lockheed insisted and sleazed them into it.   I was rather disgusted by that aspect of the conversation, especially given that the specs and pilot reports clearly demonstrated the Shooting Star's superiority in all aspects of the flight envelope.

Was a good discussion  .