Author Topic: AMD Athlon processors SUCK!  (Read 1016 times)

Offline BlckMgk

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2002, 11:40:34 AM »
Seriously though, everyone enjoys building their own computer, and save themselves maybe 2k in the process, but damn from my experience being an avid gamer... just save yourself the headache, I do know that budget may be a big factor, and well it is just a game... but check this bad mama out... (wish I had the cash)

Velocity Raptor Special Edition (Big Name eh?)    :::droll:::

Nice big price tag on it too lol... You can also talk to the Alienware people they've built their share of Aces High Computers, the consultant told me, "Oh another one?" Seems they're a popular choice.

But then again... I've gotten over building my own computers, since hardware, software, is changing every second hard to keep up... Let the folks in that business do the job, and provide me with the service hehe... Argh such a headache trying to get a compatiable STABLE system, but then  again I never had any training.

-BlckMgk

Offline blkdvl

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Disagree
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2002, 12:19:42 PM »
Bought system = Bloat ware= Piss poor perforamnce

  Building them is a snap. First one is kinda scarry, but after that, you can do it after having a few beers.Heheh. Best thing to do is find an old system (not too old) real cheap and practice your  component swap out/ driver & OS loading and get used to it.>> Ask questions<<  this is how you learn. There are many kind folks in the flight sim world who post here and on AGW HW/SW forums, who just happen to be pros who do this for a living.And they graciously help whenever they can.

  Lots of good resources out there also.Toms' is one that comes to mind...heres another good resource

 http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd/how-to-guides/924_1.html

   Besides, when you have a problem with your system ( and they ALL do) its a lot nicer to be able to figgure it out for yourself than to have to call some 8$/hr idiot at Tech Support ( They're all the same) so they can have you *try* stuff,heheh on YOUR system of course, they are reading out of a manual.... and 8 out of 10 not get the problem fixed anywho.My 2 centskis

Offline OZkansas

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2002, 01:16:24 PM »
AMD still sending a fire retardent material to mount around their CPUs after installation on the MOBO?

I loved that film of the AMD CPU on fire!!!

:D

Offline iceydee

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2002, 05:51:11 AM »
maybe you're having problems with heat? do you have enough fans in the case? have you checked the temperature of the CPU?

EDIT: just saw your other post about memtest and stuff... seems like heat is not the problem... I would get new mobo and memories if my comp. failed the memtest, and hope there's still warranty for them... ;)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2002, 06:00:13 AM by iceydee »

Offline Vulcan

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2002, 11:31:25 PM »
AMD 2100XP+, Asus A7V333-Raid, 512Mb DDR, Geforce 3Ti200, Win XP, CH Thottle, Pro Pedals, Flightstick... all perfectly stable.

Offline Dingbat

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2002, 10:12:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by OZkansas
AMD still sending a fire retardent material to mount around their CPUs after installation on the MOBO?

I loved that film of the AMD CPU on fire!!!

:D


Where where? I wanna see it

Offline -lynx-

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2002, 12:52:50 PM »
Yeah... Let's create an impossible situation, film it and try to scare people off.

I paid £2495 for a P75 with 15" monitor and 1Mb graphics back in '95. Thank God for AMD - the prices have come down since on everything cuz competition helps... If it wasn't for them I guess we'd still be running P200s maybe even without MMX;)

Offline Mogi

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2002, 01:01:07 PM »
I'm still running with my homebuilt AMD Athlon 750 and have no problems at all, fps in the 40 to 60 range.

Offline TIGS

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AMD CPU on Fire
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2002, 05:10:22 PM »
If you guys want - here's a link to the Intel/AMD CPUs test video of them going up in smoke - not Intel - just AMD but both are shown though.

No Fire as far as I can see (if there is another video with the flame in it, gimme!)

TIGS

THG's Test Video of Intel Pentiums and AMD Athlons without Heatsinks

Offline AKDejaVu

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2002, 07:27:10 PM »
In all fairness to AMD processors...

They reportedly fixed the circuit that was failing to react to the overheat in time from what I've heard.  I've not seen any additional films like those, so I assume that is actually the case.

The P4-2.8G uses more power than any of the current Athlons do.

AKDejaVu <- Works for Intel

Offline bloom25

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2002, 08:38:09 PM »
After that video came out AMD mandated that future AMD approved boards MUST have hardware thermal protection.  Almost all of them do now.  It never was a true processor issue, all Athlon XPs and Durons > 1 GHz have had the necessary component (thermal diode) on the CPU die, but no motherboards implemented any circuitry to take advantage of it until recently.

Admittedly the chances of a heatsink coming clean off is very low (as the video does), but it's good to have overheat protection now.  This is something Intel has had since the P6 core was released (Pentium Pro, P2, P3, most Celerons).

Offline AKDejaVu

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2002, 09:22:28 PM »
Hmmm... seems like I heard something about a diode delay problem on the processor for this one bloom.  One processor shown in that vid did not have overtemp detection at all.  The other had it, but it did not work due to a diode delay problem (if heat ramped too fast).

Regardless... it has been fixed.

I just am chuckling that you came in here and said it never really was a problem;)

AKDejaVu

Offline bloom25

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2002, 12:38:25 AM »
Diode delay problem?  I can't say I've heard of that.  This one is kind of complicated, but I'll go over it anyway to clear up the issue:

Up until the Athlon XP (palomino core) and Durons at 1 GHz and higher (morgan core) the K7 core lacked a thermal diode.  The root of the problem with Athlons burning up was that the temperature detection and overheat protection was done via software (firmware in the bios to be exact).  This worked, but could not react fast enough should the heatsink fall off or not be attached.  It worked fine if a fan failed.  When the Athlon XPs came out (with the thermal diode) 2 pins on the socket were set aside for it.  (These pins were previously unused.)  Existing socket A boards of course could not take advantage of the addition of the thermal diode, and newer boards did not immediately either.

In case you are wondering what a "thermal diode" is, I'll explain them briefly.  (DejaVu probably already knows this.)  In actual fact, any diode can potentially be used as a thermal diode.  All diodes have a so called "built in voltage" (Vbi) (can be roughly thought of as the voltage at which a diode "turns on")  which varies somewhat with temperature.  At room temperature a silicon diode typically has a built in voltage of around .6 to .7 volts.  That voltage increases as temperature increases.  By monitoring this voltage, temperature can be determined.  (For those who really want to know, I'll give you the exact equation to determine Vbi later on.)  There is no significant "time delay" present.

The "fix" was simply to use a hardware based circuit (a comparator) to compare the voltage across the diode with a reference voltage.  When the voltage across the diode exceeded a certain level, power is cut off immediately.  As I said above, all Athlon XPs and Durons >= 1 GHz have a diode onboard which can be used for this, but motherboard manufacturers simply did not implement the neccessary hardware to take advantage of it.  That Tom's Hardware video was a great thing, as it forced AMD to take action to correct the problem.  Asus and Soltek retrofitted all their socket A boards to include a hardware monitoring circuit within a month of the video's release.

The equation for Vbi is:

Vbi = kT/q * ln ((Na*Nd)/ni^2)  k is Boltzmann's constant which is equal to 8.617E-5 (units are eV/K).  q is the the charge of an electron = 1.6E-19 Coulombs.  T is the temperature in degrees Kelvin.  Na is the related to the doping concentration of acceptor (P type) impurities.  Nd is related to the doping concentration of donor impurities (N type). ni is the intrinsic carrier concentration of silicon, which is usually around 10^10.  For a given diode, all except temperature are constants once the diode is made.  As the equation would indicate, Vbi increases as temperature increases.)

Offline AKDejaVu

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2002, 01:03:31 AM »
Quote
all Athlon XPs and Durons > 1 GHz have had the necessary component (thermal diode) on the CPU die, but no motherboards implemented any circuitry to take advantage of it until recently.
Sorry bloom.. but this is not true from anything I've read.  The motherboards tested were supposed to have thermal protection systems that operated using this diode.  They were ineffective.  After the meltdown, AMD created a new circuit that handled things differently and mandated that everyone use them.

The problem was fixed.  There was a bug with the thermal detection system that caused the chip to fry.  That frying problem most definately caused a problem with the processor.

Chalk it up as growing pains with someone taking the leap into the chipset market and learning some lessons the hard way.

Kudos to them for fixing the problem.  Shame on them for not discovering it themselves.

AKDejaVu

Offline bloom25

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AMD Athlon processors SUCK!
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2002, 01:08:58 AM »
I didn't know about that.  That's pretty bad that something like that got through testing... :(