Are you skilled - or just gaming the game?

[Samiam]

We all get that no WWII combat ace would've considered cutting the engine as a standard ACM tactic.

Of, course, no WWII combat ace would've willingly flown lone-wolf into a big-ass furball against 3-1 odds. And he certainly wouldn't choose to fly a C202 over an LA7 because bragging rights are better for kills in a 202 than for that dweeb plane.

Accept the detatchment of "real world" behavior and that which we regularly conduct in the MA.

Or is the next suggestion going to be that AH squadron XO's who don't write letters home to the families of those members who are shot down are just being "gamey".

[J_A_B]

I don't know how skilled Midnight is as a virtual pilot.  I don't think I've ever had to fight him.  

I DO know how skilled guys like Fairz, Drex, DMF, and such are.   Even if I played every day for the next 5 years I would never reach that level of skillfullness.   It is simply beyond my ability.

So why the heck should I try to fight their fight and inevitably lose?    If I'm flying in some sort of "dogfight" event (like WW), or the DA or something that is what I will do because it's "honorable".....flying "safe" or "smart" is against the spirit of that type of event.   And yes, I will lose almost every time (ask anyone who has ever had a 1 vs 1 with me).

But there is no honor in the arena....it's more like gladiator combat than dueling....not always fair, you do what you have to.  For guys like DMF/Lazs/Drex and such, they can stallfight all day against practically any odds and be totally successful, racking up dozens of kills in short order.  Not me.  I'm not at and will never reach that level of ability.   I don't even TRY to improve my low-speed ACM anymore....there's no point.  Instead I work on my SA and shooting and 1 vs many tactics....I will never be great in 1 vs 1 but I can still be effective in the MA and scenarios.

If I know I'm never going to be able to beat a fair number of players, I'm not even going to try...that's a waste of time.   I choose a plane that simply invalidates their skill advantage.....I might not be able to kill them, but as long as I'm in a faster plane they can't kill me either unless I choose to let them.

Then it's just a matter of flying my plane well enough to beat the players I CAN defeat.  In AH I don't even fly an airplane I like (I fly the 51D because I flew it in AW not because I particularly like it in AH).....I rarely fly with squaddies and I hate climbing high.   I get bounced and ganged a lot, I die a lot, but at least it's my own choice as opposed to simply being at the mercy of people like DMF/Drex/Fester and such.   I can't kill them....but if they're going to kill me it'll be by MY choice, not theirs  

The moral of the story is in the arena you do what works for you.  For those players who are, frankly, better than average, by all means get "down and dirty" and fight it out.  For those who LIKE doing that win or lose, do the same.   But for those who don't like flying around for 10 minutes just to instantly get sent back to the tower because we simply aren't as skilled at this game as some others....well different tactics are in order.  There has to be a balance....there will always be SOME "opportunists".....but if you have too many gameplay goes down the toilet.  There's also a very fine line between being opportunistic and being outright timid.

Yeah, that's it....do what works for you.

J_A_B

[Fatty]

I feel the same way when someone turns away from a potentially dangerous situation just to save their score, instead of being prepared to die for their country.

I think those people should be grounded and reassigned to front line infantry.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by hblair
Guys, this engine kill thing isn't as big a deal as ya might wish it was. Most of the guys who use it would kill you anyways, this just makes it faster. So actually they're saving you the time of thinking you might get away and just killing you right off the bat. They're actually helping you.

I doubt it. I've had a few fights against some of the more notables, many times being in great position for the kill shot. Then I get left wondering how the hell they made such a tight turn at the speed we were both going.

I would rather be beaten knowing the guy didn't do some 'gamey' move to get the advantage. Now that KOTH has been setup to dis-allow 'engine goosing'(TM) I'm going to be there to see just who can and can't shoot me down.

Besides, if they are going to kill you anyways, why don't they use a little more effort, and less gamey tactics. <<--- once again, this goes right back to my original question on the whole thing, that no one has really stepped up and answered....

Do you get more kills by using 'gamey' tactics, or do you go for what could realisticly be done in your plane of choice?

[SlapShot]

I have heard this "engine off" phenomenon lately and at first thought it was just the way AH handled sounds, but quickly realized that when I heard engine off sound, they slowed down very quickly.

Now, if I hear it, and they then roll left/right, I just roll opposite and hit the WEP, or I go verticle (if I have the right speed) and cut throttle. Yup, I missed the opportunity at that instant, but still try to counter and try for another setup. This manuver, I don't think, has ever resulted in me being killed.  It has just stopped or prolonged me from killing them.

It is "gamey" and the conseqence of turning your engine off should be changed. Midnight started a poll and his proposed solution is once the engine is shut off ... it will take 30 seconds to start again. Sounds good to me.

J_A_B ...

I don't know what you were trying to tell us ... BUT ... you have got to be kidding me. I have never seen anybody demean themself as badly as you just did.

If you don't aspire to fly like the pilots that you have named, you surely will NEVER progress to their level, and from what I just read, your fate is sealed. If you avoid fighting these guys, you will never learn anything. I have been waxed by all of them and everytime I get in a fight with these guys, I take something back from the encounter.

I fail to believe that these guys just loaded up the software one day and were instant aces. They must have gotten waxed like the rest of us at the beginning.

I have watched films that some of these top pilots have provided and have learned a tremendous amount from them.

Drex has one in an F6F and if memory serves me correctly, he shot down 5 or 6 planes (P51s, YAK, 190s). Not once did he cut his engine, he used all angles to defeat their solutions and snapshots to kill them. Yes he is an exceptional pilot, and from watching his film, I have been able to incorporate some of the techniques that he used, to my advantage.

Geeeesh .. don't sell yourself so short !!!

[Fatty]

I doubt it. I've had a few fights against some of the more notables, many times being in great position for the kill shot. Then I get left wondering how the hell they made such a tight turn at the speed we were both going.

As if it wasn't obvious this is what the thread was about from the start.  Perhaps it's because they are willing fight from their plane's weaknesses and learn from it.  Arcadish gamers I believe they're called.

[X2Lee]

Originally posted by -ammo-


MA. But the orginal question was based on a rule for the KOTH that disallowed the use of the practice of cutting and restarting your engine in competition.  That I agree with.  However Wildthing (and likely others) want that rule out the window:)

It would be EASY to fix by making it impossible to restart for a few minutes to simulate a quick restart??

I guess its not "quite" cheating but Its gaming the sim too much I think. I wouldnt do it and feel right about it and I can kill a chute and vulch an ambulance.      

[Rude]

Originally posted by hblair


And while you're at it ask him if he could take his head off his shoulders and set it on the dash facing backwards to get a good six view.

Guys, this engine kill thing isn't as big a deal as ya might wish it was. Most of the guys who use it would kill you anyways, this just makes it faster. So actually they're saving you the time of thinking you might get away and just killing you right off the bat. They're actually helping you.

That's funny and true:)

[hblair]

Originally posted by Midnight


I doubt it. I've had a few fights against some of the more notables, many times being in great position for the kill shot. Then I get left wondering how the hell they made such a tight turn at the speed we were both going.

I would rather be beaten knowing the guy didn't do some 'gamey' move to get the advantage. Now that KOTH has been setup to dis-allow 'engine goosing'(TM) I'm going to be there to see just who can and can't shoot me down.

Besides, if they are going to kill you anyways, why don't they use a little more effort, and less gamey tactics. <<--- once again, this goes right back to my original question on the whole thing, that no one has really stepped up and answered....

Do you get more kills by using 'gamey' tactics, or do you go for what could realisticly be done in your plane of choice?

You've kinda surprised me midnight. I always thought you were pretty level-headed. I guess this thread is just about pride after all.

I'm glad to see you'll participate in KOTH. It's a fun event. You'll have to be diversified in your plane preference though. Any fighter can be chosen. And you have to mix it up too. I look forward to seeing you there.

[J_A_B]

"Geeeesh .. don't sell yourself so short !!!"


I've been playing these air combat games for around 6 years now--not as long as some, but still a signifigant amount of time.   I'm no newbie.  

I don't sell myself short.  I realistically appraise my skills.   My 1 vs 1 ability is somewhat poor and even if I worked at it as much as I used to I'd never reach the level of guys like DMF/Drex/Fairz/Nath and such.   That's not demeaning, any more than my realizing I'll never be as good a racecar driver as Mario Andretti is.  Some people just have a knack for certain things.  

In a game like AH you really have to be able to hold your own against the horde.  I hate the horde.  I hate losing to the horde.   The really top-notch pilots can wade into the horde and win.....if I were to do that my best hope would be to take 1 or 2 with me before I go down....not fun for me.   So instead I fly and fight by different rules, rules that work for ME.  

We all have different ideas of "fun" and different goals for ourselves.  Far from being disappointed with myself, I'm perfectly happy with myself as far as AH is concerned.  
Really, how you feel about yourself (how much FUN you have) is the ONLY thing that matters in AH.  

The only players I truly disrespect are those who deliberately try to ruin the game for other players (so-called "grief players").  

J_A_B

[Yeager]

As long as the inflight shut down and start up reflects at least a quasi-imitation of reality Im ok with it.  If thats the case then Im on my way, but I have a sneeky suspician that this procedure is taking advantage of a flaw in the game.  I have had this thing explained to me but Im simply not convinced.

Of course I wish PYRO would say something on this matter but I cant possibly hope to hold my breath that long and expect to live.

I could be mistaken, I usually am.

[Rude]

Asked by Midnight:

Do you get more kills by using 'gamey' tactics, or do you go for what could realisticly be done in your plane of choice?

I achieve all of my kills by displaying superior tactical pilot stuff, not to mention a level of courage second to none combined with the daunting good looks of the most handsome group of young stallions in the game....yes.....you know who I'm speaking of....THE MIGHTY 13th TAS!!!!!!

Oh....and Hblair....get ready for a Dose of Danger....a Helping of Hurt! Cyas Wednesday:)

It's Friday man.....Farout!

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Voss
Midnight, you can increase your k/t by another 50% by involving yourself in something rooks are hard pressed to find. MISSIONS.

Fester has been running Pony missions the last few days, and while I was reluctant at first I discovered it was not hurting my k/t any at all (aside from the killshooter from bombing/rocketing a hangar that a bishop flew near). I was accused, by a rook, of fighting a peripheral fight. Well, it must have really hurt his ego to be killed by a low and slow P51 fighting a peripheral fight right over the field and at least six flaks. I think WideWing can attest to the effectiveness of rockets against a Flak.

Yeah you got me, but my turret had been knocked out by the previous attempts to kill my FP, 6 of which should have reconsidered their options. Had it been up and working, the only thing to be attested to would be my ability to put a round right between your blinkers at 2k. As Fester can attest to in spades. Rocket runs on Ostwinds are not advisable. You have to get within death ray range to launch. Bombs are far more effective due to a much larger blast area, and the fact that they are released at far greater distance.

But hey, some days you're the windshield, some days you're the bug.

My regards,

Widewing

[Midnight]

Originally posted by hblair


You've kinda surprised me midnight. I always thought you were pretty level-headed. I guess this thread is just about pride after all.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my pride at all. Now I know that the tactic is being used, I will just do what I need to to avoid it.

My 'crusade' as some people put it, was to simply find out who uses gamey tactics and who doesn't. However, the intollerable volume of the whining and acusing me of being some sort of cry baby about the whole thing prompted a more direct approach of me asking for a poll on the subject of engine restarts.

I think what has been discovered is that the 'gamey' tactic users all retaliated against me like I was some sort of national criminal. You know what? I don't give a flying expletive what they think and I never will.

My nature is to be competitive in everything I do. I play by the rules, and I don't try to bend them or maniplate some sort of abstract view of how they should be inturpreted so I can gain an edge against everyone else. In law, I believe they are called 'loop holes'. Tax evaders use them all the time.

If people want to game the game, go ahead and do it, just don't cry like a little girl when I call you on it. If someone doesnt like me, that's their choice. It doesn't effect me either way. If someone wants to try and put me down by calling me names, that's their choice, and again, don't cry like a little girl when I call you on it.

I fly my Mustang as high and fast as I see fit for the situation. Sometimes I end up being the highest and fastest plane in the area. Other times, I find bandits even higher or faster than me. Do you see me in here crying about all the turn fighters and alt-monkeys? No, I do what I have to do to try and get out of the bad situation and find an advantage. If that means running all the way back to a friendly base to get in AA... Guess what.. I am going to do it. If you choose to follow me in and get shot down, don't whine at me. If the tables were reveresed, I wouldn't follow you into your AA. If I find myself getting into a turn fight with an LA7 and I'm loosing position.. I'm running.. damn right.

If people aren't honest enough to just state the facts about the question I asked, then I really have no use of listening to them in the first place.

So I ask one last time.... Do you (any player) use the 'gamey' tricks available to you in AH, or do you try to fly within the parameters that were relistically possible for for chosen aircraft?

Answer the question or don't bother responding.

[Fatty]

Yeah, you're being persucuted by the gamerz.

All you did is ask if people fly like you do or are they just gaming the game?  Why did they turn on you so with such a fair and constructively worded question?

As with the last thread of yours, nobody cares how you fly.  They care about you squeaking about how everybody else flies.