Author Topic: Game Stoppers (Read 552 times)

Sandman · « **Reply #30 on:** October 17, 2002, 11:46:54 AM »

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Originally posted by muckmaw
Those are interesting ideas, Wide.

Did Navy ships of the time even have radar? If so, I'm sure it was very limited.

And if they had radar, why did they need and use scout planes?

I suspect that there were range issues on air search radars. Clutter rejection, amplitude, you name it.

Also... The best thing to do would be to hit the aircraft carrier while the planes are still on deck.

For surface search radars, the limitation is the horizon.

Revvin · « **Reply #31 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:04:17 PM »

Midnight> What stops two or three planes capping the HQ? ..nothing that's what! and don't give the 'oh we did'nt have the numbers BS' there is no excuse.

Widewing · « **Reply #32 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:09:15 PM »

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Originally posted by muckmaw
Those are interesting ideas, Wide.

Did Navy ships of the time even have radar? If so, I'm sure it was very limited.

And if they had radar, why did they need and use scout planes?

I like you idea about having a radar station controlling a 4 block grid. However, I think taking out that station should eliminate radar for the entire 4 block grid, without having to destory the radar at the field.

As far as you HQ idea goes, it's very compelling, but you'll anger alot of people. Imagine how many would log if they could not just pop on and find out where the fight was via channel 2?

I like the HQ idea, but I am not sure others wil approve.

Circa 1944, most forward Allied military fields had radar, usually a mobile unit (trucks with trailer). These were completely independent from search radar nets that were constructed in Britain.

So knocking out a portion of the net had no effect on local field radar. However, these radars had limited range and capability. Enough though to detect enemy aircraft and obatin a reasonable estimate of the number of aircraft.

By late 1943, American Task forces had radar that provided adequate info. By mid 1944, improved radar made approaching a USN task Force, undetected, very difficult.

One last item. Sector block radars should not have a map icon. Make the attacking force locate it visually. Granted, once they are all found, everyone will know where they are every time the maps rotate in. Nonetheless, without an icon it complicates the issue somewhat.

My regards,

Widewing

dtango · « **Reply #33 on:** October 17, 2002, 12:56:45 PM »

My observations on Rookland strat:

1st - Numbers do have an impact. That's partially what we are seeing in Rookland.

2nd - In my opinion I would have to agree that we rooks don't seem to have it together regarding strat especially for the Pizza map. How much alike or different from other countries I cannot say. That is an observation I've made though- e.g. noticed the other night that instead of rollling up a bunch of bases where we could, everyone gravitated toward big fights instead. I'm not saying that this is neither bad nor good, just that at least in this case there was a lack of attention to strat.

3rd - a lot of the coordination in Rookland comes when the squads get together for combined operations. Outside of that it's hit or miss.

4th - I don't think we Rooks have quite the infamous mission planners that draws crowds like a Fariz, or a Ripsnort. The last was Zigrat. Maybe our Rookland generals should take notice to what makes Fariz, Ripsnort, and Zigrat missions so popular. I think it's too simple to put the blame for people not joining missions because rooks just want to furball. The same psychology exists in all 3 countries.

Notes on Radar:
I like Widewing's ideas.

Shipborne radar could detect a/c up to 150 miles. The reason for scout planes was to detect enemy surface vessels well beyond this range. Curvature of the earth has something to do with all this as well. I forget the range on mobile units. However recalling Guadacanal they were detecting a/c approaching around the 100 mile range I believe.

Tango, XO
412th FS Braunco Mustangs

Nifty · « **Reply #34 on:** October 17, 2002, 02:40:20 PM »

blah blah blah rooks... can be replaced with blah blah blah knights or blah blah blah bishops on any given night.

I flew last Friday evening (US time.) Knights were getting ganged pretty hard and for once actually didn't have the most players on when I've been on. All we were able to do was defend that evening. We were without radar quite often during that time as well. I had me a good time that night.

Voss · « **Reply #35 on:** October 17, 2002, 02:47:23 PM »

What really has you rooks upset about the Pizza map is the timing with which it was rotated in. If, the pizza map rotates in at the beginning of the weekend, enough rooks stay online throughout to reset the map within a day, or two. I recall having been confined to a four base situation (as a Bishop) not too long back, and it was rooks that did it. Why just last weekend you outnumbered us and you had up to 190 rooks online at once.

No, the problem is rooks are not mission oriented during the week. That and rooks have not learned the defense will get you nowhere. Bishops were in this boat just two months ago. It took quite a bit of effort to get them on the attack, but now they do fairly well. There are times when you just can't get anyone together even then!

Rooks sure don't have a problem finding the time to fill the channel 1 radio buffer, though.

I'm betting tomorrow night will see more rooks online.

Voss · « **Reply #36 on:** October 17, 2002, 03:08:44 PM »

I disagree with WideWing. Perhaps it is gamey to have dar controlled by HQ, but arguing historical accuracy won't wash. The current range of dar is about accurate. Just think of the HQ as being the human chain, rather then the equipment chain. By bombing HQ you are hitting the mechanism by which the radar is interpreted and transmitted to pilots. This may not be an accurate interpretation of the system at wars end, but it certainly is acccurate for the early war period.

Limiting radar altitude to 50ft. has no historical basis. Ground reflectivity and clutter caused interference up to about 200ft, and so it should remain. It already isn't perfect, as someone may be behind a hill, yet above 200ft AGL, and so they show up on radar.

Bases flashing make it possible for you to find the fight. I do not believe that changing this would help rooks at all. To the contrary, I think rooks would be devastated by it.

rogwar · « **Reply #37 on:** October 17, 2002, 04:16:34 PM »

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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
I've been flying Rook for over a year. I got fed up and switched to Bish.

What a surprise! Mission after mission after large scale 20+ aircraft mission.

IMHO, the Rooks don't get resets because they don't do strat. They furball.

Certainly, there are exceptions, the Original Flying Tigers and Flying Pigs come to mind. They are quite often playing the strat game, but on the whole there's just not as much strat activity in Rookland as there is in Bishland.

I can't speak for the Knits...

Switched to Bish?

I was wondering why we have not seen you lately!

I could not make it for the Rook reset of the pizza map but I was involved quite a bit of the way.

We do missions but often they are squad oriented and planned on the channels. Many of them are very well executed and flown by competent pilots. Most can carry ord and jabo very well. Also, we usually have a goon on the way if it's been done appropriately. You are right about the Original Flying Tigers and Flying Pigs. There are usually not many of us but we tend to be very destructive when we work as a team. The Flying Tigers AVG or FTs are also a great squad and do some awesome missions.

The Rooks seem to do very well when we get the right combination of squads online. You see people doing things like:

- everybody brings ord (knowing how to kill VH and FHs as well as ack)
- goons in route
- coordination of strikes

I believe Rooks are more often in the low numbers and outnumbered but it's very rewarding when we take bases in that condition.

I really don't furball anymore and have not in a long time. I usually don't fly anywhere unless I am going to do one or more specific activities.

Nighttime and pizza map are OK for me. They will evolve as the game does. Nighttime is great for certain sneak activities.

I like to have radar but sometimes it is less stressful flying while carying bombs when you don't have radar. You don't get worried by red dots on the map as much.

It's fun going into an enemy base with a Yak especially medium sized and taking out all the ack while dragging this big stream of red guys. It sort of reminds me in Galaxy Quest when they were dragging mines. Yeah it's a suicide mission in a way because I eventually get killed but often I can drag this big hoard away while the cavalry is just arriving. to take out the FHs and VH

I wish wizzer our CO would jump us to maybe Bish for one TOD but I believe he is little worried that we just couldn't get clean again. I once created another account and flew Bish and Knit for a little while. Afterwards I had to draw a nice bubble bath and put on a little Kenny G.

Shiva · « **Reply #38 on:** October 17, 2002, 04:20:05 PM »

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Go San Diego Chargers!!!

And take the damn Padres with you!!

Sandman · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2002, 12:23:07 AM »

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Originally posted by rogwar

Switched to Bish?

I was wondering why we have not seen you lately!

It's my only regret... I love flying with the FT and FP...

Don't know, but I haven't seen many of you guys in the past few weeks. I'm sure everyone is flying, but we're just out of sync.

mjolnir · « **Reply #40 on:** October 18, 2002, 02:14:16 AM »

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Originally posted by Widewing
Do away with HQ controlled bar-dar, make each base an independent radar site. Each 4 sector block should have a master radar station that can be knocked out of service, blacking out those sector's bar-dar. However, maximum height to be below dar should be reduced to 50 feet. This will allow for different methods of stealth attacks. Do away with blinking map icons altogether and bar-dar in enemy sectors. The enemy should not know what is flying at your bases until they actually get there.

In other words, attackers must sneak in very low under dar, kill sector block radar station which then allows the sectors to be transited without detection, unless they fly within the range of field radar.

Only problem that I can see with this, Widewing, is that trees have a nasty habit of reaching up to just about 50 feet. I've wrapped planes around more than one trying to figure out how low I could go. Now if you wanted to keep the planes under 100 feet, that might work. You have to allow a little bit of room for manuevering and dodging trees.

Widewing · « **Reply #41 on:** October 18, 2002, 08:20:27 AM »

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Originally posted by mjolnir

Only problem that I can see with this, Widewing, is that trees have a nasty habit of reaching up to just about 50 feet. I've wrapped planes around more than one trying to figure out how low I could go. Now if you wanted to keep the planes under 100 feet, that might work. You have to allow a little bit of room for manuevering and dodging trees.

Hmmm.... I was wondering where all those dents in the leading edge came from....

My regards,

Widewing

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #42 on:** October 18, 2002, 08:47:18 PM »

It just boils down to communication. The rooks have none, zero, zip, nothing. The only voice I heard while flying for rooks was that of HISPD... after recognizing the CPID of course I switched back because I felt dirty... but thats besides the point!

The Bishland radio is ALWAYS running.. chatter chatter chatter - and none of it is non-game related (mostly). Hell, sometimes its difficult to have a conversation with squaddies because the range is squaking to often - "six!" "look out" "coming around" "turn him left, Ill get the bastard!" "thank you sir" - bottom line is rooks need to start talking if they want to get anywhere. Id love to fly for the underdog, but I hate the "alone" aspect - I might as well play IL2 singleplayer.

OIO · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2002, 09:24:39 PM »

I like WW's idea.

Put a big dar tower in the middle of 4 sectors..knock it out, dar bar and dar dots go out for those 4 sectors. Field radar would only give out bar dar for things above 100 ft AGL.

Now, knock out HQ and you knock out bar dar and dot dar for fields where THE PLAYER is not in. So if player is in A1 field and HQ dies, he only sees bar dar and dot dar for the 4 sector grid in which A1 is in.