Author Topic: CIA is real smart  (Read 371 times)

Offline Cherlie

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CIA is real smart
« on: October 18, 2002, 12:05:54 PM »
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/17/intelligence.inquiry/index.html

Quote
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The al Qaeda terrorist network has reorganized after its ouster from Afghanistan and "intends to strike us here and overseas," CIA Director George Tenet told a congressional committee Thursday.


DUH!


CB

Offline rogwar

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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2002, 01:07:07 PM »
Christians in Action and No Such Agency need a major reorg

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2002, 11:59:22 PM »
Dont you mean Criminals in Action?
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Animal

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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2002, 12:04:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by rogwar
Christians in Action and No Such Agency need a major reorg


Oh please, tell us how it should be operated!

Offline whgates3

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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2002, 12:09:34 AM »
they tend to sharpen up during the period between the end of the redskin's season and before the begining of the rotisserie league baseball season

Offline rogwar

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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2002, 07:42:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal


Oh please, tell us how it should be operated!


I suppose I should not have popped off without a further explanation.

Not just those intel agencies but DIA and all the other intel areas as well need some attention.

I worked with a lot of those groups in the late 80s and early 90s. Acquaintances tell me that still not much has changed. The major problem is they are still burdened with a structure suitable for the cold war. Plus their HUMINT capability really went downhill for a variety of reasons (regarding the CIA because NSA works with signals intercept).

I wasn't trying to be critical of the organizations. They do need a reorganization and/or revampment. I believe the word reorg has a negative connotation. I know in my company it certainly makes people uneasy.

The fault not only lies within the agencies but as much or more within the legislative and executive branches of government.

I don't have a new intel structure ready to roll out. I have ideas but that's really for a group of people a lot smarter than myself to develop. From what I hear it's recognized in the administration that changes are needed. I certainly hope they are smart ones and not mainly political.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2002, 11:21:51 AM by rogwar »

Offline Nefarious

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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2002, 10:45:44 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Animal
Oh please, tell us how it should be operated!


For starters, full disclosure of thier illegal operations dealing with smuggling of Crack/Cocaine, and the wide spread epidemic of the drug in the 80's.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline wulfie

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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2002, 02:06:03 PM »
There have been full disclosures. It didn't happen. It was mainly lies spread about an organization that can't defend itself publicly. The people spreading the lies knew this.

The time period you are talking about - the beginning of it is covered by the FOIA. It was honest (a rarity) media persons that uncovered the fact that the 'allegations' of 'a CIA funded crack cocaine epidemic' were lies plain and simple, thanks to access to FOIA cleared files.

And while we're on that topic, it was the dumb ass, clueless, knee-jerk reaction to events that those lies were based on (after all, the best lie contains a little truth, no?) that caused the 'brilliant' restriction to be applied to U.S. intelligence agencies - you know the one...the one that says U.S. operatives can not have anyone on any payroll (as an agent, informant, etc.) who is a known criminal, suspected of war crimes, etc. Here's a clue - when you look at the types of people that intelligence officers deal with - they are either:

1. Foreign military personnel, who are willing to become agents of the U.S. (not applicable to religous back terrorists in general).

2. Foreign intelligence officers, who are willing to become agents of the U.S. (not applicable to religous back terrorists in general).

3. Foreign politicians, who are willing to become agents of the U.S. (not applicable to religous back terrorists in general).

4. Mercenaries (not allowed due to the 'rule' mentioned above, as almost all available mercenaries have at one time or another worked for an 'opressive regime').

5. Rogue intelligence officers (not allowed again, these guys are hired for counterintelligence usually, so they are known to be 'torturers').

6. Drug dealers, black marketeers, etc. (not allowed again, too busy selling crack on the street in L.A. to keep the po' down and in their place - NOT).

So, who does that leave? Achmed the AK-47 polisher, who doesn't believe in Al-Qaeda but they let him sit in on all the planning meetings anyways? :)

And one of the major results of that directive was the death of HUMINT resources available to U.S. intelligence agencies...

...which made penetrating the cells working on the 9/11/01 attacks nearly impossible. But then, somehow, the CIA, FBI, and NSA were simply 'incompetent', and that's why the attacks managed to be pulled off. Yeah - it was incompetence alone. No chance that dumb bellybutton resrictions, instigated and forcibly applied by people who have no real-world knolwedge or experience when it comes to intelligence related work, contributed to the 'intelligence failure'.

I just wanted to get this straight (again), Heaven knows I've heard it enough:

1. U.S. intelligence agencies should be heavily curtailed, because they 'can't be trusted'...wait...I meant 'because some reporters and some U.S. citizens' groups *who are financially backed by governments hostile to the U.S.* don't think they can be trusted'.

2. When intelligence failures occur, mainly due to stupidly curtailed agencies not being allowed to do their job/do things that every other intelligence agency in the world does, it's the fault of the agencies in question.

The bottom line is this - most citizens of a democracy *do not like spies, even their own*. Because the world that spies live and work in is 'distasteful'. You never see one of James Bond's contacts in a movie come out of a room after 'raping' a 14 year old 'prostitute'/slave and shake Bond's hand. Contacts in the movies are always affable old Russian guys who serve as comic relief. Sorry, that's not how it works.

Here's a good article to read that explains the 'Americans don't like spies' topic - sadly it's a sort of obituary for one of America's greatest intelligence officers:

http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley021502.shtml

From that article:

"We have a great ambivalence toward intelligence. The average American thinks it's something that isn't very clean, it isn't very American and the Founding Fathers wouldn't like it. Well, I have news for them. George Washington was one of the most prolific readers of other people's mail. Benjamin Franklin was assistant postmaster of British North America before the Revolution when we were all loyal subjects of George III. He was busy opening all the British mail. They caught him. They sent him to London to stand trial before the Privy Council. They found him guilty. Before they could sentence him, he skipped off to France to conduct the covert operation that was to bring France into the war on the side of the Revolution. Now this was a remarkable achievement, seeing that Anthony Eden's great-great-great-grandfather had fully penetrated Benjamin Franklin's office. Franklin's valet was a British agent, his secretary was a British agent, and we have some doubts about one of the three commissioners."

There's alot of 'reports' about the 'evil CIA'. Well, there's a book, written by a 'hostile' reporter - who was given access to the CIAs history files under the FOAI. It goes into great detail about the first 25 years of the CIA. If you want to know the truth (well, some of the truth) check it out. It's called 'The Very Best Men'. It's not pro-CIA. Some of the biggest screwups by the CIA are examined in great detail. It's a history book. Anyone who reads it and doesn't like it, I'll buy you a beer at the next AH con (assuming I'm home by then).

Mike/wulfie

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2002, 02:13:22 PM »
Oh come on Mikey, we all know the FOIA is not for real.  They just threw us a bone so we wouldn't be curious about the workings of the real government.  All the good stuff, like the Area 51 UFO factory, the CIA's invention of the AIDS virus, and the Republican operation against the Kennedy brothers, will never be publicized.  :rolleyes:

Offline wulfie

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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2002, 02:55:44 PM »
Well I had better call Mulder and Sculley then. :)

One of my former co-workers has been assigned to the hell that is 'pre-release censoring of FOIA materials'. I wonder what he's *really* working on?

Probably:

A. Making sure the Bills don't win the Superbowl if they make it there again this season.

B. Rigging the elections in Florida against the Democrats by using sub-par ballots designed by...Democrats? :)

C. Hiring more and more 'gorilla agents' to buy copies of WW2OL with CIA slush-fund $$$, and then returning the copies (oh wait, you can't) and posting 'WW2OL sucks!' to BBSs internet-wide even though WW2OL is a cutting edge virtual battlefield. :)

Mike/wulfie

Offline Tac

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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2002, 03:34:51 PM »
CIA needs serious help from MOSSAD.

Now theres a real agency. ;) :D

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2002, 06:57:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wulfie
One of my former co-workers has been assigned to the hell that is 'pre-release censoring of FOIA materials'


My favorite word is "redaction".  :)

PS  You going to the Raiders game tomorrow?  We are having a tailgate at my friend's house in Alameda if you want to join us.

Offline rogwar

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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2002, 07:01:14 PM »
Excellent write up and assessment wulfie! :cool:

"And one of the major results of that directive was the death of HUMINT resources available to U.S. intelligence agencies... "

I wanted to expand more on the subject but I was too tired when I originally posted. I just left it at "a variety of reasons". The Legislative and Executive branches are to blame. From what I understand, things really went downhill in the Carter administration and continued afterwards, although I believe it started before that time.


An interesting analogy is the use of paid confidental informants (CIs). They are often very helpful intel sources to police detectives but most are involved in some type of criminal activity or at least on the fringe.

There can be abuses but generally the public does not question the valid use of CIs. They are even compensated with our tax dollars (although some of the funding may come from seizures and such).

« Last Edit: October 19, 2002, 07:19:59 PM by rogwar »

Offline wulfie

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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2002, 08:09:59 PM »
FunkedUp, if I could be at that game I would. However, I'm 'far far away' from the lovely Bay Area at present. Basically my only hope of going to a Raiders game right now is the Raiders making the playoffs. It will be awhile before I get home to the U.S.A., then 'home home' to CA.

Mike/wulfie

Offline whgates3

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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2002, 09:18:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nefarious
For starters, full disclosure of thier illegal operations dealing with smuggling of Crack/Cocaine, and the wide spread epidemic of the drug in the 80's.


they did, in a book called "Comprimised" by Terry Reed