Author Topic: P38L High Speed Flaps (Read 741 times)

stantond · « **on:** October 21, 2002, 11:06:48 PM »

Didn't the P38L have high speed flaps? Seems like everything I have read seems to indicates that. Just curious.

Malta

wells · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2002, 11:16:26 PM »

Yes, it had dive flaps that were designed to aid in high speed dive recovery. The landing flaps could be set to a manoeuver setting below 250 mph. If you're thinking of improving turn performance, they won't help much above that speed anyway, cause you'll be blacked out, regardless.

popeye · « **Reply #2 on:** October 22, 2002, 08:13:32 AM »

Did the RL dive flaps produce drag? I don't detect any difference in level speed when AH flaps are deployed. (Or, maybe the effect is very small??) Anyway, can't see a reason to retract them.

Widewing · « **Reply #3 on:** October 22, 2002, 11:58:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by popeye
Did the RL dive flaps produce drag? I don't detect any difference in level speed when AH flaps are deployed. (Or, maybe the effect is very small??) Anyway, can't see a reason to retract them.

Yes, they did generate drag, and shifted the center of lift forward along the chord, inducing pitch-up. This then would cause a hands-off, 3 G pullout. As modelled right now, the AH dive recovery flaps do none of the above.

My regards,

Widewing

Wilbus · « **Reply #4 on:** October 22, 2002, 12:55:58 PM »

Yeah, they just "exist".

maybe time to fix old planes before adding new ones HTC?

Samm · « **Reply #5 on:** October 22, 2002, 01:38:01 PM »

I thought the purpose of those flaps was to increase it's compression speed .

fats · « **Reply #6 on:** October 22, 2002, 04:40:37 PM »

Samm,

If you flapped them harder you would go faster?

// fats

gripen · « **Reply #7 on:** October 23, 2002, 05:57:39 AM »

The dive recovery flaps did not change the speed where the "tuck under" started. But because they added that positive pitch as Widewing noted, the plane could safely reach 20-30mph higher speed in the dive and therefore also steeper dives were possible. Also drag caused by this device helped to keep the plane out of trouble.

gripen

OIO · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2002, 02:28:01 PM »

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26424&highlight=dive+flaps

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27973

MOSQ · « **Reply #9 on:** October 23, 2002, 07:29:58 PM »

It would be really nice if HTC would fix the dive flaps on the P-38.
I'm glad I found this thread, I just started learning the 38 in AH and was a little frustrated that the dive flaps made no significant difference. In Air Warrior they worked quite well, like a speed brake and were useful in situations where you wanted to slow down quick.

Wilbus · « **Reply #10 on:** October 23, 2002, 07:39:15 PM »

Then again, why we want the dive flaps for the P38 fixed is just because we want our planes to be far superior to everything else and so on, not something to do with realism or anything like that at all

(for those of you who have no idea of what I am talking about, ignore it)

Lazerr · « **Reply #11 on:** October 23, 2002, 09:10:13 PM »

Just recently the light went out for dive flaps indicator. Now nothing about them works.

OIO · « **Reply #12 on:** October 23, 2002, 09:48:04 PM »

Evil wilbus...just evil

There were 2 biggest gripes ive had with the 38 model since I started playing:

Damage Model
Flaps. (Dive Flaps and the $#@@ autofowlerflapretract)

Took 10 or so tours to get the damage model fixed. Perhaps we have to wait 10 more for the flaps ?

Bodhi · « **Reply #13 on:** October 23, 2002, 10:33:11 PM »

While the P-38 "Dive Flaps" do provide the needed forward lift as WideWing noted, they also have a few other "Nifty" characteristics that should be noted.

#1 they refuse to deploy at high speed, as the electric drive motor WILL NOT and does not have the power to put them out.

#2 If Dive speeds are exceeded, they tend to be either driven back, or the actuation arm bends or breaks all together resulting in a terminal dive.

#3 They WERE NOT standard equipment on the J and L, and in some cases were even removed to save maintenance headaches.

One of the Lightnings I have in our shop now suffered the failure noted in #2... it's leading edge and most of the wing is less than a foot thick... (Nose to Trailing Edge) Another, is an L, which does not have Dive Flaps... they are there, just faired over, and the work was done during the war as judged by markings on the metal. Just an FYI for ya'll.

stantond · « **Reply #14 on:** October 24, 2002, 11:39:04 AM »

So,

I guess what you are saying is that the work at NACA to develop the dive brakes was not implemented or utilized. I never heard that before. I believe that hydraulics replaced the electro-mechanical actuators. Course all that is from reports and not actual aircraft.

That said, the aircraft models used in AH are just that. What I was originally referring to was a high speed (>300 ias) flap setting. Seems like I rember reading about one and Air Warriors 38J had a high speed flap setting (and dive brakes). Not that the P38 in AW was any more realistically modeled than the one in AH.

Malta

p.s. I have a fondness for the P38. It was the first AW plane I was able to get a five kill flight out of.