The results of my informal trial period in GVs

[Fatty]

M8 works pretty good if you use its speed instead of trying to fight like you're in a panzer.

[myelo]

Originally posted by gofaster
the M8 is a novelty with no useful purpose in Aces High.  Anything it can do the Ostwind can do better.

Using an M8 to go toe-to-toe with a panzer or ostwind is like using a 202 to head on an IL2. The strenght of the M8 is to mvoe fast and get behind a tank or osty and pop them before they know what's happening.

[Dinger]

And offensively, the panzer is great for sitting 3 miles out and shelling fields and cities.  Often they don't even know you're there -- stuff just starts blowing up.

[Shiva]

(b) the Panzer is a death trap. PT boats have a better survival rate against aircraft. I think if HTC corrected the armour model for the Panzer, there'd be less whining for the King Tiger tank. They should also come up with a better way to aim long distances, like a magnifying scope of some sort. The #2 view we have right now is insufficient.

Well, we're deprived of the coaxial MG that WWII tanks had -- a machine gun whose ballistics were matched to the shells the gun fired, so that you could range your target with the MG, then fire the main gun and have a pretty good chance of hitting your target, rather than the guesstimation we have to do now outside of icon range. The coaxial machine gun was also used offensively against soft targets, which we're short of in the game, so in that aspect we're not missing much, although it would have some limited utility against the M3 and M16.

[Shiva]

Panzers whoop Ostie butt everytime, unless you "let" him get close, then you're not using the weapon correctly.

Panzers should be whooping Ostie butt every time; it's the broken damage model that lets them throw fragmentation shells at a vehicle designed to withstand AP projectiles and cripple it at 2000 yards.

[SlapShot]

Originally posted by Shiva


Well, we're deprived of the coaxial MG that WWII tanks had -- a machine gun whose ballistics were matched to the shells the gun fired, so that you could range your target with the MG, then fire the main gun and have a pretty good chance of hitting your target, rather than the guesstimation we have to do now outside of icon range.

Interesting ... didn't know that.

What I do know is that I can use the MG (I usually use zoom mode) to target the con and then immediately jump to the gun and it is pointed exactly where I had the MG pointed. This prevents from having to swing the gun from its last position. I have also noticed that if I position the MG crosshairs above the target, the gun will have been positioned accordingly. I'll bet that the MG will not fire the same distance as the gun, but isn't what I described something similar to what you have mentioned?

[Tjay]

That may be true in theory, but not in practice. The Panzer really only works as a defensive weapon. I've found that unless you're on the defensive and have a clear line of site to the enemy's path of attack, the range advantage is nullified by the movement of your Panzer's gun if you're trying to advance on the enemy's position and get away from the spawn point or otherwise try to traverse terrain to get to a spot where you can see what you're doing.  

As far as I know WWII tanks could not or did not shoot 'on the run' because of that reason. The Gyro-stabilised mounting hadn't yet been invented. You do see film of Russian tanks shooting during a headlong charge but I gather that was only at very dense targets and even then more a demoralising ploy rather than in the hope of doing any real damage to specific targets.

I think the normal practice was the 'leapfrog' tactic in which one or more tanks stopped and engaged enemy gvs while others advanced about half a mile (dependent on terrain) and then stopped and took over the shooting. This allowed the first party to come through and advance. And so on.

That sort of thing depends on discipline and training and could only be carrried out by a dedicated squad of Tankies, IMHO.

Btw, if there is such a group on the Bish side, please email me. I would love to join.

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Shiva


Well, we're deprived of the coaxial MG that WWII tanks had

We are?  So how did my panzers and m8 get thier coaxial machinegun?  A cheat?

Map a key for "Secondary fire" for vehicles, it fires the coaxial machinegun.

[SlapShot]

Innominate,

Could you please elaborate a little more ?

How is this any different than the MG in position 3 ?

[Fariz]

Originally posted by gofaster
(c) the Ostwind is a killing machine.  It can kill everything - on the ground and in the air.  Why would anyone want to drive a Panzer when they can accomplish the same thing in a Ostwind?

Because skillful panzer driver will knock down 3-6 osties attacking him before they will go into a range.

Fariz

[gatso]

We are? So how did my panzers and m8 get thier coaxial machinegun? A cheat?

I have both a joystick button and a key mapped to 'ground vehicle, secondary fire' and neither of em fires the coax machine gun.

Can't find a key that does.  Strangly (I've just found) my #3 joystick button that is mapped to 'show damage' does fire it.

Found a new gun to play with. Thanks!

Gatso

[SlapShot]

From what position does one fire this coaxial MG ?

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Tjay


As far as I know WWII tanks could not or did not shoot 'on the run' because of that reason. The Gyro-stabilised mounting hadn't yet been invented. You do see film of Russian tanks shooting during a headlong charge but I gather that was only at very dense targets and even then more a demoralising ploy rather than in the hope of doing any real damage to specific targets.
 

I can quote Huderian (my translation):

Shooting during movement, which was so popular at the peace time, at the war time was used only on special situations, for example at the suprise engagement, or in the night time engagements. Because stabilizing gear was not yet invented, accurasy was not high, and use of shells excessive.

About the soviet war time films, very often they were produced: for example I read a numerous accounts on how for chronicles many panzers and planes were send together, filmed, and then sent back to places of their locations. I saw couple such chronicles (it was a 20 frames long film from the war time films during the Soviet time, I saw it like 100 times You could identify them by the low fighters flying over the tanks.

But, from the other hand, in the memories of one of the german panzer commander (he was in a tiger), who took part in Prohorovka battle, I read something like that: "t34 attacked us at
full speed, and because we had a problem with a gun, we could destroy it only when it came very close. While aproaching us it kept fire, and were able to fire 4 shells. After the fight I saw 4 marks from its shells on the front part of our turret". He said that to prove that t34/76 guns were uneffective against tigers, and german panzers loses to t34s were neglectable. May be that t34 was lucky, or that commander just forgot how it was, but that is what I read.

[MrLars]

Originally posted by SlapShot


I would have to say that disabling a panzer with a plane is way too easy, but it will definately survive longer than a PT boat. Once the turret is disabled, you might as well have been killed.

Not So!

I've gotten lots of kills of a/c with the hull gun < eg >

[MrLars]

Use your secondary weapon button to fire the co-ax mg from the #2 position.