Panzer Problems

[senna]

Would be nice to get a Sherman next.

[bj229r]

Brady..ive prolly posted a dozen stupid-GV-things in last year or so...never see HT respond..never see stuff changed...HT usually says it hasnt heard of problem

[brady]

Their have been several post's in this section and in the general forum about GV issues, and frankely debates on this subject have been raging since I came to AH over 2 years ago. HTC is certainly aware that a portion of the comunity has a problem with how HTC hadels GV modeling.

 Also Big Brother is always watching, the entire staff reads the BBS including HiTech himself. In the past they have adreased issues with GV's, the following come to mind:

  The M3 uber armor issue was fixed.

  A general revamp of the armor model was done I beleave quiet some time ago.

  M8 Bugs were adreased.

  Rof on the osty was lessened.

  A hull MG position was added for the Panzer hull.

  HTC does respond to posts about issues, typicaly they do not repond to issues they have covered over and over again.

  The single coolest thing about AH(other than the game) is the fact that they do listen, AH is a living thing it grows and changes " The Caracter Develops". with so many people with divergent agendas and wants they can not possably satify us all. ultimately I do not expect to be fully satified, nor am I shure I would want to be, but they have done things in the past that I have hoped and campainged for, I suspect this will hapen in the future again.

[gofaster]

I still can't believe the Osti can kill a Panzer with only 3 shots.

[Angus]

Well, the GV damage model is porked, more or less, and often it has very little to do with net connection.
Grabbed a M8 the other day to intercept an inbound Ostie.  A friendly Panzer disabled the osties Turret and engine, The ostie punctured all tyres on one side. I totally emptied all my ammo into the osti at a range down to approx 200 yds, from all angles and everywhere into the tank, - the hull, the sides, the turret, the tracks, you name it. Result, no damage. I hit with roughly 90% of the shots, only a few were over the turret. Here is a picture of my second last shot:

[Urchin]

I'm surprised he didn't kill you with the hull gun.  

I don't know enough about the weapons to know for sure that the Ostwinds 37mm really couldn't kill a Panver IV.  All I know is that if an Ostwind gets within 1,500 yards or so of your Panzer at any angle, you are in trouble.  

The 37mm on the M8 is quite useless.  If you load the HE rounds, you can sometimes kill an M16 or an M3, although they'll likely kill you first with the .50 caliber MG.  It goes without saying that although the 37mm HE rounds the Ostwind fires are quite effective against M3s, M16s, Panzers, and other Ostwinds, the 37mm HE round the M8 fires are entirely useless against Ostwinds and Panzers.  Doesn't matter how close you are, doesn't matter what the angle is.  You can't kill a Ostwind or Panzer with a 37mm HE round if you are in the M8.  

On the other hand, should you decide to load the 37mm AP rounds, you may be able to kill a Panzer or Ostwind.  If you are behind them at least.  Oh, and inside of 600 yards.  I've had some lucky disabling turrets out to 1,000 yards or so, if you hit the side or the rear of the turret.  The 37mm AP round can't kill a M16 or M3 though, I've hit M3s 8-10 times with it for no damage at all.

I've always been curious as to what kind of ammo the Ostwind has.  It would seem likely that it would be HE, given the fact that it IS an anti-air weapon.  It also kills M16s and M3s quite handily, which would point to it being HE.  It is easily the best weapon for killing any sort of building with, and since the AP rounds the Panzer and M8 have are entirely useless against buildings, this would seem to point to it being a HE round.  On the other hand, an Ostwind can kill a Panzer or another Ostwind in 2-3 shots if they are close, from any angle.  This would seem to indicate an AP shot, and a very high velocity one at that.  

I've never heard HTC comment on it, so I've no idea what kind of round our beloved Flakpansie is shooting.

[gofaster]

I noticed from the photo that you were shooting at the front of the Osti.  I'm thinking that, if the Osti uses the same lower-body shell as the Panzer, then you were shooting at the tank's strongest armored side.

Then again, I put two M8 AP rounds into the backside of a Panzer last night and didn't do any damage to it.  The tank pummelled me before I could get off a third shot.

[Soda]

The Ostwind is just a necessary evil in some ways, yet the scourge of the arena.  Without it all we have for air-defense is an M16 (which is at best a 1 for 1 trade against aircraft).  Without it, we have Panzers firing half their ammo into a hanger, taking many minutes to knock it down.  The problem is, there is a game balance issue that needs to be addressed with the purpose/effectiveness of these units.  What should be the preferred GV for taking out buildings?  A offensive historical unit like a Panzer, or a defensive one, like the Ostwind.  it's pretty obvious which is the choice right now.  The Panzer can't defend itself from air attack, can't fire quickly, the ammo is ineffective against structures... blah blah blah.

It's a balancing issue.  Whenever anyone asks "what is the best anti-air GV unit"... obvious answer, Ostwind, one hit one kill, at ranges out to D2.5 or more.  When someone asks "what is the best anti-structure unit"... obvious, Ostwind, it fires fast and hits hard with a huge ammo load.  When someone asks "what is the best anti-GV unit", well at least this one can be argued, but for those with aiming issues at shorter ranges, the Ostwind all the way.  Just walk the rounds onto your target and let them do their work.  Fast GV's can't escape your firing rate while the slower Panzer doesn't have the armour to protect it from the 10 rounds you will land between his reloads.

the shame really is, I doubt the Tiger will be of any use in the current model.  It'll have the tracks strafed off just like a Panzer, and then it's simply a matter of time before it's blown up.  I'm sure HTC has thought of this though and plans to do something... at least I hope so.  If not, it's a whole lot of modelling effort to make something that looks awesome, but is simply a big hanger queen.

-Soda
The Assassins.

[Sakai]

Couple nights ago in CT I killed an Osti with an M-8.  Lobbed them into him HE rounds, Don't know how many hit him as he was at distance but he and I fired quite a bit.

Sakai