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Author Topic: End the killshooter mechanic  (Read 352 times)

Offline JB42

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End the killshooter mechanic
« on: October 26, 2002, 08:35:26 PM »
Congrats to HTC for what appears to be a moderately successful ad campaign.
However, with the influx of many new flyers, the killshooter mechanic has become very annoying. I can't tell you how many times I am on the 6 of a bandit and some 12 number named newbie flies into my gun stream and I am spiraling to earth as a firey dart.
Lets just get rid of it. If you can allow friendly planes to pass through each other while having enemies ram, you can figure out how to let friendly fire not effect anything and still allow for shooting down the enemy.
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Offline AKDejaVu

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2002, 12:11:24 AM »
The influx of newbies means killshooter is needed more than ever.

Most of the rest of your points simply come down to your own decisions you make while flying.  Target selection, engagement situation, SA... all of them are lacking from what you are saying.

AKDejaVu
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Offline viking73

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2002, 12:52:24 AM »
Decisions he made? What kind of decisions does he have to make or what SA does he have to improve on when he's 400 behind a bogie and some idiot zooms thru from behind or sqirts between the two. Fine, then let the newbie die for getting in his way. The Killshooter was originally put in so that you don't go and kill on of your own on purpose. It is not needed at all. ATC can make it so that nothing happens when you shoot your own. There never was a good reason to have it.

AH is very inconsistant in it's gameplay. For example, you can fly thru your own countrymen but 2 of your buffs in formation with you blow up.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2002, 01:52:00 AM by viking73 »
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Offline Wotan

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2002, 02:27:24 AM »
we need to protect ourselves from killstealers and spray pray ober the shoulder shooters.

You are in control of firing your guns. You can look around with hat swirtch and make sure you have a shot.

Killshooter works.

You have range channel to comminicate, you have a hat switch to check around.

The burdens is on you to make sure you have a shot.

Sometimes accidentsa still happen but those are few and far between. SA is not just about where the bad guys are. Its easy for a few guys chasing 1 bad guy to feel safe and get tunnel vision on the bad guy. You need to work to stop that. Youneed to know when not to fire and you need to recognize when you lost the shot advantage and break off to avoid killing yourself.

Its part of the game. HT said he isnt going to change it. The best thing to do to keep from pissed off is to fly smart and know when to pull that trigger.

The arena is filled with enough over the shoulder shooters and and spray and prayers. Imagine the spray if there was no penalty to hitting a friendly. The 50 cal dweebs would spray a wall of bullets behind you. If you fly axis or vvs (or a plane where you need to be in close) it wouls be too much.

Adapt your behavior to fit the game.

Also like colisions the difference in FEs allows for accidents. What the other guy sees (he may see himself d100 off your wing) and what you see (you see him "fly right in front of you) are not the same. Therefore the burden to guard yourself against killshooter is on you.
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Offline MotorOil

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2002, 12:59:36 PM »
I defend the kill shooter rule.  There are tons of guys out there I'd love to shoot down if I saw their name tag!  I'd switch countries to do it. :-)

How many times would "you" be shot down by some dweeb who thought he could steal the kill or by some spray and pray guy who doesn't care how many friendlies he takes down?

Killshooter is part of the game and I'm sure those who hate the rule are being downed a lot less than if the rule didn't exist.
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Offline SlapShot

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2002, 01:53:40 PM »
I believe in KillShooter ... BUT

Come on Wotan .. you are oversimplifiying the situation.

Twice last night I got into the "saddle" and to the credit of the bandit, they were rockin' and rollin' .. doing everthing they knew to spoil a guns solution. Myself, carrying cannons, choose not to spray-n-pray so as to not waste limited cannon rounds. I remain glued to their 6 and WAIT for them to burn a little more E, and at the right moment, POP 'EM.

While they are "rockin' and rollin", if I were to look around for 1 second, as you suggest, I would lose this guy, and the tables might be turned. I do listen to VOX so if I get a 6 call, I will break, or considerate pilots will ask if I need help,  but to even consider switching views while in the "saddle" at 400-300 is not an option. You make is sound so casual and easy to check your views while trying to stay glued to some guys 6. God bless 'ya man.

Anyways, both times I WAS able to pop the bandit just seconds before some JERK decides that he needs to get involved and fly right in front of me and shoot at a dead plane. What is it that drives these guys to fly directly in front of another plane that truely has position and is only waiting for the right moment. It is these situations that can cause those that die to KillShooter to scream outloud. My wife and kids can testify to that.
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Offline popeye

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2002, 02:05:51 PM »
Killshooter is fine the way it is.
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2002, 02:28:16 PM »
Killshooter rules.  Get closer to the enemy plane than any of the others, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

-- Todd/Leviathn
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Offline crowMAW

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2002, 02:59:03 PM »
Killshooter sucks.  If its purpose is to eliminate fragging, well, there are better ways to do that.

1) Allow no damage from friendly fire.  The shooter still loses ammo, but will not be able to damage a friendly.

2) Reduce killshooter lethality.  You still take some damage in the same method as you do now but at a significantly reduced rate.  This way you are less likely to kill yourself if you accidently hit a friendly.

Killshooter for bombs needs to be elimated entirely.  There should be no friendly fire damage from bombs.  There is no way to control when some idiot ignores your "bomb's away" call and dives in to vulch some poor schmuck coming out of a hanger on which you just laid 3000lbs of eggs.
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Offline SlapShot

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2002, 04:24:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Killshooter rules.  Get closer to the enemy plane than any of the others, and you'll have nothing to worry about.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Lev .. in all instances I AM the closest to the enemy plane when I squeeze the trigger and just when I lay a leading "lead rope" out to snatch his life, some amazinhunk might decide that they have to remedy the situtation and drop from above, into the "lead rope".

You know better than most, that when you are getting in the saddle, you must maintain co-E or you might face an overshoot. Your E state maybe much less than some JERK above you, so no matter how close you stay on the 6 of the enemy plane, while trying to get a guns solution, that JERK can drop down between the two of you and cause a killshooter ... and their ain't nothin' you can do about once the .50 cals have left the muzzle.

I have had a few rare situtations where I have killed the enemy and have disintegrated via killshooter when the last remaining rounds have struck a friendly as they dive in to "take over".

HT ... Jam my guns, but please don't take my plane from me. :D
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Offline Wotan

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2002, 04:32:36 PM »
you got to know you lost the advantage. What difference does it make it you are target fixated and shoot a friendly and die or you are target fixated and get killed by an enemy?

Heres the difference,

when you die to ks you'll squeak that someone cut you off.

when you die by the unseen enemy you'll squeak no gave you 6 call.

If a guy is stick stirrin, scissorin of "jinkin" the easiest way to defeat him is not follow by to climb and reposition. But we all know that you arent just going for the kill but you are racing the friendlies around you to it.

Learn some SA and learn to break off and hold your fire.

Or you just come to the bbs and squeak how every thing is allows some one elses fault.

If you pull the trigger and hit a Friendly[/b] its your fault. If you cant master SA then so what if you get ks'd.

No one cares if you die, better to learn that and take the responsibilty of keeping yourself alive.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2002, 03:16:19 AM by Wotan »
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Offline SlapShot

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2002, 10:13:32 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
If you pull the trigger and hit an enemy its your fault.


I'll have to remember these words of wisdom !!! :rolleyes:
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SlapShot - Blue Knights

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Offline Wotan

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2002, 03:15:05 AM »
doh!! you what I am saying :)
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Offline Innominate

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2002, 04:29:10 AM »
Ending kill shooter is a ridiculous idea.  Kill shooter may not be perfect(i.e. way too deadly) but it most definitly does it's job, and does it well.

On a side note, Anyone who's name is only numbers should show red to EVERYONE regardless of which team thier on.  Teach em to get a real name! :D
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Offline AtmkRstr

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End the killshooter mechanic
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2002, 04:21:34 PM »
If kill shooter didn't exist, then I would on occation sneak up behind a friendly and spray him with bullets.  I'd even strafe people on the runway as I'm comming in for a landing.   I'd even try to fire through (or closely around) friendlies to try to hit the enemy. why not?

I'd only do this on occation. Some pilots would do it regularly.  

The solution isn't to remove killshooter, but to lower the amount of damage you take to somthing very small.
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