New Gameplay coming? I hope.

[Mooja]

Originally posted by Apache


You mis-understand this debate. The argument is, what affects game play the most? You stated that 262 vultchers had more affect than "lawn dart guys". The fact that said 262 kills were multi-kill sorties or not has no bearing.

I believe it does have a bearing which is why I started the debate you say i'm misunderstanding.  Perhaps you'd be more likely to lawn dart with a Yak behind you rather than a 262 but in general I don't believe that is the case.  I also don't believe it's the case that the same 262 vulch pilot can up a Yak and land multi-kill vulch sorties with the same ease.

[Apache]

Very well. We are arguing a point neither of us can prove nor disprove. You see what you see, I see what I see.

Agreeing to disagree, I think, is the prudent thing here.

BTW, you're spot on on the KS thing.

[Wotan]

innominate is wrong about this as well...

Restricting and limiting what, where and when folks can fly is the quickest way to cause folks to log. We dont need any of this or a variation of such.

[Amboss]

Well Wotan, in that case we prolly just gonna have people log out because they get tired of this senseless Airquake that the MA currently is.

Perks are in a way already limiting what people can fly, and in my personal opinion, people are not going to log just because they can't fly the Tempest or 262 they would really like to fly right now.

All that currently matters are numbers and fields.  Just throw a neverending stream of people vs. an airfield and sooner or later they will overwhelm the field and take it.  And what really is sad that it takes no skill whatsoever if you have the numbers.  The whole issue is reinforced by the infinite supplies currently available and the fact that the win conditions are having the most fields and reducing one country to one field.

I tell you what, sooner or later even those that continually win resets will tire of this pointless system. At some point, taking fields will become so mechanical and boring that  only braindead people will find enjoyment in it.

I think it's just a fact here that we are dealing with two different playertypes, the furballing-gamey types and the strategical realism minded ones and we somehow have to come up with a MA concept that satisfies both player types because we don't want to loose either of the two since they make for a rich experience.

-Amboss

[Wotan]

I have made numerous detailed suggestions on how to shift gameplay from the airfields to strat.

I am not gonna keep retyping it.

But the main is not a war, we dont need half-assed scenario rules in place. You think the rooks have it bad now have umm get their "death quota" filled or their "spawn limit" filled and lotsa of umm will just switch sides or quit ah.

Theres nothing wrong wanting a2a combat. Thats the only reason I enter the main. I dont care about field capture, "winning the war" or any of that crap.

It used to be that 15 or 20 guys we come into a field drop their bombs and mix it up with the defenders. Good fights will develop and as the tide shifted back and forth between the closest bases we ended up with a real fun furball.

The only thing that upset that balance was a fluffer coming into to kill the fhs for no reason but to feel important.

Now we get 50 suicidal dweebs killing themselves over and over to get the field objects down. They dont even fight then run right to the fields pass the defenders and ride their bombs in. There is always more of these attackers then defenders and "death quotas" and "spawn limits" or "aircraft attrition" do nothing but make it easier for this type of gangbang to succeed.

Shifting reset conditions to something other then the airfields like the suggestions I and others have made will encourage those who want to "win the war" to adjust their efforts away from base rape.

It doesnt eliminate field capture, it doesnt stop folks from flying what when or how they want. It simply shifts the focus else where.

Putting the reset conditions on the strat model also will give the bombers a little more impact on the "war" then they have now.

But it doesnt stop people who dont give a crap about "capture the flag" from having fun as well.

Clearly from my dealings with the suicide hordes they claim they are just trying to help win the war. In their quest to achieve this they rationalize all types of behavior. Its their money and time and they can do what they want. But we can adjust the reset conditions in such a way as limit their impact on the rest of us.

We dont need less a2a combat in the main. Look at the pizza map. Lotsa folks dont even bother logging in when this map in rotation. Theres simply to much "war winning" and "milkrunning" and not enough a2a combat for it to be fun.

The best thing to do is not worry about how or what or where other folks fly but to tweak the reset conditions in such a way that encourages the "war winners" to adjust their direction.

They can still suicide airfields and kill themselves all they want. But when they realize it wont "win the war" they will go to where they are "helping" to "win the war".

[lazs2]

The solution is two part and simple..

One... an early war area within the arena where only early planes are allowed.. that will kill the lopsided thing without more sensless and unfair perks that cause problems..

Two.... perk every bomb over 250 lbs for fighters.  you don't earn fighter/bomber perk points unless you survive a jabo sortie.  The attention starved and lazy suicide bomber numbers will drop dramaticly..  you can adjust the "bomb perk" value as needed.
lazs

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Wotan
...
Now we get 50 suicidal dweebs killing themselves over and over to get the field objects down. They dont even fight then run right to the fields pass the defenders and ride their bombs in. There is always more of these attackers then defenders and "death quotas" and "spawn limits" or "aircraft attrition" do nothing but make it easier for this type of gangbang to succeed.

Shifting reset conditions to something other then the airfields like the suggestions I and others have made will encourage those who want to "win the war" to adjust their efforts away from base rape.

It doesnt eliminate field capture, it doesnt stop folks from flying what when or how they want. It simply shifts the focus else where.

Putting the reset conditions on the strat model also will give the bombers a little more impact on the "war" then they have now.

But it doesnt stop people who dont give a crap about "capture the flag" from having fun as well.

If you move the reset conditions to the factories, the 50 strong JaBo raids will just move there too. It will still be endless waves of suicide dweebs and nothing will have been accomplished.

Why do people have the notion that limiting A/C availability based on your survivability rate will make players leave? If they go to play doom again, they are getting the same thing. If you die, you restart with a pistol and a knife. You have to survive long enough to go and find the BFG2000 (you earn it). If you die, you're back to the ole' trusty pistol again.

I know AH is not Doom or Quake, but in just about every single pure gamer's video game, your character starts out with the basic issue junk and you have to survive and use 'skill' to gain the better weapons and other neat toys. I don't see how making AH emulate that just slightly will be a detracting factor.

If players have no reason to try and keep from being killed, they won't try.

[Wotan]

suicide dweebs dont bother me a bit as long as they arent porking airfields. who cares if they kill themsdelves. Besides like I said I posted in detail my suggestions on how to address the reset conditions.

I suggested many more and much larger strat facilities wrapped in multiple zones. I suggested increasing the structure hardness etc...... I not gonna typing it all out again.

If you move the reset conditions to the factories, the 50 strong JaBo raids will just move there too. It will still be endless waves of suicide dweebs and nothing will have been accomplished.

Accomplished? Theres nothing to accomplish but to limit the impact those who choose to suicide on the rest of us. If they want to spend there time in ah flying into the ground at a fuel factory I could careless. Its there money. Just like I could careless about cv suiciders. It doesnt effect me. I dont want to change how folks fly. I just want to be able to pop in an hour or so a day, take off and have a few good fights. The rest of its all bs to me.

Why do people have the notion that limiting A/C availability based on your survivability rate will make players leave?

Because I would. I am not gonna spend my time chasing after timid 30k runners who are so afraid to fight because they may  burn up their quotas. You also realize your plane of choice is the most shot down in ah. Whether you are arguing about straight "attrition" or "attrition" at the individual airfield level the probrability of you getting to fly your plane will be pretty low. You will then argue that you "deserve" to fly the p51 because everyone else are dweebs and dont fly it right and you get stuck flying other planes.

If you die, you restart with a pistol and a knife. You have to survive long enough to go and find the BFG2000 (you earn it). If you die, you're back to the ole' trusty pistol again.

So are you going to fly a p40b until you earn a p51d?

If players have no reason to try and keep from being killed, they won't try.

Again who cares if folks dont mind dieing or being killed. I like killing folks. I like folks who fight. I hate running after dweebs who will come in at 30k in the fastest planes and who will run to keep from being killed rather then get aggressive. We dont need a more timid main. We dont need less a2a combat. All we need is to be ablesto take off and find a fight without it taking up all the limited time folks may have to fly.

Events run 4 times a week in ah. Theres all the plane/life attrition one could want. In the main I just wanna fight. But those who care or have fun "winning the war" should have the ability to find there fun however they can. If thats suiciding and killing the tricky sneaky ground structures then I have np with it. All I wanna do is limit their impact on me.

We can adjust structure hardness and downtimes. Increase the amount of ack. We can add more strat objects and make them larger. We can create a level of strat that takes some coordination and effort to destroy or reset. It can more then just roll up and suicide one right after another.