Author Topic: Please, perk the Dora (Read 996 times)

guttboy · « **Reply #75 on:** November 01, 2002, 02:03:27 AM »

PERK THE GOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

AtmkRstr · « **Reply #76 on:** November 01, 2002, 07:21:56 AM »

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Originally posted by Animal
Dora dominates the LA7

Yes, because of pilot skill.
The D9 is good because many veteran pilots fly it, and noobs don't. It's a similar situation as the P47-D11.

What you're asking for is to perk the pilots. Heck why don't we perk "luck" while we're at it too?

AtmkRstr · « **Reply #77 on:** November 01, 2002, 07:36:29 AM »

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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Um.

La-7 has 579 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 750 Kills of La-7

Let's compare that to the other perked planes:

Tempest has 57 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 21 Kills of Tempest

Ta 152H has 16 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 16 Kills of Ta 152H

Spitfire Mk XIV has 19 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 19 Kills of Spitfire Mk XIV

Me 262 has 63 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 13 Kills of Me 262

F4U-4 has 16 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 8 Kills of F4U-4

F4U-1C has 84 Kills of Fw 190D-9
Fw 190D-9 has 87 Kills of F4U-1C

Well now that's pretty interesting. It seems the Dora dominates the La-7, and except for the F4U-1C the Dora has a 1:1 or lesser K/D ratio against perked planes. If these two planes were perked, it's clear that the Dora would and should cost more than the La-7.

-- Todd/Leviathn

You're abusing statistics because you're not doing a proper analysis to find the cause of the data. The reason the D9 is able to kill perk planes easier is because it's flown at higher altitude and is able to dive on lower E perk planes.
Most perk planes are only vulnerable to higher E planes, thereofre the D9 shold be statistically good vs perk planes. La7s are normally found low, therefore La7s it wouldn't be expected that La7s would be statistically good vs perk planes.

Also, planes should be perked based on their impact on the MA, not based on their stats vs perk planes - those are the rarest of planes and should be the last ones cosidered in the perk rating.

Shane · « **Reply #78 on:** November 01, 2002, 07:49:42 AM »

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Originally posted by AtmkRstr
Also, planes should be perked based on their impact on the MA, not based on their stats vs perk planes

so, how does the LA7 impact the arena? looks like it's 4th in terms of total kills, and someone posted stats about it vs other planes in terms of k/d and stuff showing it to be middle of pack.

all kinds of people drive la7's... runners, cherrypickers, gangers...

and me.

just like other planes.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #79 on:** November 01, 2002, 08:35:21 AM »

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Originally posted by AtmkRstr
You're abusing statistics because you're not doing a proper analysis to find the cause of the data.

[/B]

Ah, but of course. I'm sure a proper analysis from you follows.

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The reason the D9 is able to kill perk planes easier is because it's flown at higher altitude and is able to dive on lower E perk planes. Most perk planes are only vulnerable to higher E planes, thereofre the D9 shold be statistically good vs perk planes. La7s are normally found low, therefore La7s it wouldn't be expected that La7s would be statistically good vs perk planes.

[/B]

LOL Some analysis. Beyond conjecture, you also have absolutely nothing to back up this assertion. I've seen plenty of low Doras and plenty of high La-7s. I've seen tons of high P-51s, yet the P-51 has 2103 kills on the La-7 to 2649 deaths. I've also seen plenty of high and low perked planes. I doubt altitude has as much to do with it as things such as armament, ammo load, top speed at all alts, acceleration, roll rate, etc. The standard fare. Except for turning ability, the Dora is a dominant plane, pure and simple. I'd take it over the La-7 any day.

Quote

Also, planes should be perked based on their impact on the MA, not based on their stats vs perk planes - those are the rarest of planes and should be the last ones cosidered in the perk rating.

I wasn't listing those stats to defend perking the 190D9. I was doing so to show how successfully it has performed against the ostensibly "superior" La-7 and the various perked planes. To even insinuate that the Dora or La-7 require perking is silly IMO.

-- Todd/Leviathn

lazs2 · « **Reply #80 on:** November 01, 2002, 09:24:05 AM »

we need an area within the arena for early war planes... It wouldn't be a bad idea to have a mid war area also.. Let the late war monsters eat each other up. I bet it takes the fun outta late war planes tho when they have only other late war planes to fight.
lazs

Shane · « **Reply #81 on:** November 01, 2002, 09:35:48 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
I bet it takes the fun outta late war planes tho when they have only other late war planes to fight.
lazs

actually last weeks CT setup was pretty fun, you got to see spit14's, temps and f4u-4's flying aggressively (well a few anyway, and me when i was in them) vs la7's and yaks.... it was quite fun and hopefully a lesson to some about just how well them "monsters" can play down in the dirt.

la7 held it's own for the most part, as did the yaks... it boiled down mostly to pilot skill (when it wasn't a mini-ma-style-3+/cherrypicker-fest).

i have this film of a beautiful lead shot with a yakt 37mm shot from 680yds out, coming off a reversal and just nailing an off-angled extending temp with 2 rds.... boom!!

lol.

from that setup, i've come to the reinforced conclusion that the spit14 is overpriced in MA - i'd say about 20-30 perkies would be about right.

you really need to play in CT more, if there's more than 6-8 people on, you find exactly the kind of action you claim to be desiring in the MA, often with early war stuff. it's furball city, mostly...

MotorOil · « **Reply #82 on:** November 01, 2002, 10:28:40 AM »

I fly a plane based on what I want to accomplish for that flight. I imagine that is what the majority of pilots do in the MA. My plane of choice has been the La-7 this month due to the numbers of Bish and Knit. I've been on the defensive quite a bit, why would I up an early plane to take on 2-5 enemies at once? If the numbers are a little closer I'll jump in the La-5, jabo I'll be in an Fm2 or F4u-1D.

If you want to see a more variety in the main the theatre has to change a bit as I hear rumoured. Larger Towns, more ground targets ect. Pizza map I don't tend to see as many of the dominating fighters. I'll up an early model and go into a not so furballish fight. I see more P-40s and Hurricanes on the Pizza map than in the others....

That's my thoughts.

Turbot · « **Reply #83 on:** November 01, 2002, 12:10:30 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
I bet it takes the fun outta late war planes tho when they have only other late war planes to fight.
lazs

Was curious if there was any validity to this, so looked at my figures. I just don't see numbers for this, early war planes accounted for 14 out of 394 kills I had last tour (3.6%).
3 A6M2
4 109F4
1 110C-4b
1 202
2 Hurricane Mk1
3 FM2

66 of my kills were in the 109f4, but I for sure flew also my share of late war monsters. 77 kills in F4U1d and 61 kills in Ta152 accounting for the biggest share of them.

Though the planes I killed most were 43 P51-D, 27 Spit IX, 26 NiK2, and 24 La7's I still had fun. I don't think you are right about this.

Ack-Ack · « **Reply #84 on:** November 01, 2002, 02:13:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM

In my opinion, numbers affect gameplay balance far more than aircraft types. It's more relevant than the P51/LA7/NIK2 whine of the week.

The perk system is flawed. We all know it's flawed. It's inconsistent and capricious... and it hasn't been changed since _insert version here_. Hell, we're still carrying around F4U-1C baggage because of the effect that it had on an entirely different strat system. IMHO, perking the LA7/P51/NIK2 won't fix anything. The entire perk system needs another look.

Still... Rook/Bishop/Knight all enjoy the same flawed system. Only difference is... Rooks are outnumbered 4-8:1.

Perking the LA7 or the Dora isn't going to change that little fact.

Besides... you're the one that brought up balance as a gameplay argument. Any discussion about balance must include force strength... or is it your aim to have an arena filled with fighters that have 1:1 K/D ratios while the rest remain perked. Is that your idea of balance?

You really seem to like to bring irrelevant arguements to the table.

I never advocated perking these so-called 'uber' planes, they don't need it as they don't effect game balance in the arena. And when talking about planes causing an unbalance, it's not necessary to add being outnumbered as part of the arguement since they are totally and completely different arguements. If a plane causes a gameplay to be unbalanced, it has nothing to do with being out numbered, that's something you seem to fail to grasp. I don't know if it's a language barrier that keeps you from understanding, or maybe I just have to type slower for you to grasp it.

And to repeat one more time, the only plane I think that should be perked is the Me262, as that's the only plane that is truely capable of effecting game balance.

Ack-Ack

Sandman · « **Reply #85 on:** November 01, 2002, 02:18:53 PM »

One more time...

Plane types do not cause unbalanced gameplay.

Urchin · « **Reply #86 on:** November 01, 2002, 02:27:14 PM »

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Except for turning ability, the Dora is a dominant plane, pure and simple. I'd take it over the La-7 any day.

Lev... you are joking right? A mediocre pilot in an la-7 will kick the crap out of a good pilot in a Dora, unless all the Dora does is BnZZzz. Even then it would only take the La-7 maybe 2 or 3 passes to equalize E states.

Erlkonig · « **Reply #87 on:** November 01, 2002, 03:01:48 PM »

Leviathn - the D9 is slower and a worse climber up to about 7.5k. The three nose mounted cannon on the La-7 don't hurt either. I honestly don't remember seeing you fight it out above 5k, so I can't see how the D9 becomes the obvious choice "any day". The D9 is one of the best planes available - but there's no need to exaggerate the fact. The La-7 is much often a better choice.

MrLars · « **Reply #88 on:** November 01, 2002, 03:05:37 PM »

Perk the Pony and you MAY stop SOME of the suicide jabos but at the cost of seeing more of them running than now.

Perk the La7 and you will see even more La7 runners.

Perk the Dora and you'll see them higher and even more timid in their BmZ tactics.

SOME pilots will NOT change their 'style' of fighting because of the perk price...most will IMO.

I can't understand why some people want to have more runners, ack hiders and even more timid BnZers in the MA.

Perking bombs MAY be the way to reduce the suicide Jabo's but perking these planes for any other reason would quite possibly create even more boring MA fights.

My personal solution is to kill any P51's, N1K2's, La7's, Typhoon's or 190's first if conditions are right.

YMMV as always.

Turbot · « **Reply #89 on:** November 01, 2002, 03:13:35 PM »

Perked loadouts makes sense to me, gunsets included. For example: I am given to understand that the LA7 with the 3 cannons was not a very often flown verison in the war, that a 2 cannon version was much more common.

edit: I still would like to see factored in a score factor that accounts for pilot experience. That is to say something along the lines of a lower ranked pilot killing a higher ranked pilot awards more score/perks for the kill.