Author Topic: Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation  (Read 1089 times)

Offline Karnak

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« on: October 29, 2002, 03:56:47 AM »
Some time ago I stated that I felt the Mosquito consumed fuel too rapidly.  As evidence I gave the fact that the Spitfire Mk IX has greater endurance than does the Mosquito in AH.

Spit_9 -- 35/+21=56  
Mossie -- 34/+16=50


The original thread can be read here: The Mossie's flight endurance still seems too short

Acting on advice from that thread I obtained a PDF file of the Pilot's Notes for the Mosquito FB 6 from snafu's website.  The Pilot's Notes for the Mosquito FB 6 can be found by clicking on the Pilot's Notes link on snafu's website.

On page 11 of the pilot's notes it lists the fuel capacity of the Mosquito FB 6's various fuel tanks:

MAIN SUPPLY
Centre tanks....................50 gallons
Inner tanks....................286 gallons
OUTER TANKS................116 gallons
_____________________________
Total........................ .....452 gallons
Long-range tank...............63 gallons
Wing drop tanks..............200 gallons
(2 x 100 gallons)
_____________________________
Total fuel capacity...........715 gallons

(Interestingly this is less than the total internal fuel capacity of 543 gallons listed on the HiTech Creations Mosquito page)


On pages 30-33 of the pilot's notes there are flight planning charts that give the fuel consumption for various speeds, weights and altitudes.

For the ease of calculations I selected settings that would consume fuel at a rate of 100 gallons per hour so that I could simply use the 50 gallon Centre tank.  If the fuel consumption was correct, then the fuel should last half an hour.

The settings were:
AUW: 17,000lbs
Altitude: 10,000ft
RPM: 2,400
TAS-KNOTS: 275

TEST SETUP
Using the AKDesert map in offline mode I set the fuel consumption to 1.0000.  I selected A56 as my take off field, planning a southwest flight along the channel.

To get roughly an All Up Weight of 17,000lbs I set the Mosquito to full fuel, no external or internal stores, 150 rounds per 20mm gun and 500 rounds per .303 gun.

TEST

Once on the runway I selected the right inner (RI) fuel tank before starting the engines so as to keep the centre tank (AUX) full.

I then took off, climbed to 10,000ft and set a southwest heading.

I then reduced my RPM settings from 3,000 to 2,400 and reduced my boost setting from 14lbs./sq.in. to 8lb./sq.in.

The Mosquito's airspeed declined until it settled at about 265mph. (This was 265mph true airspeed, not indicated airspeed)

I then switched to the AUX tank and started a timer simultaneously.

RESULTS

The AUX tank was drained in 13 minutes and 52 seconds which indicates a fuel consuption rate with those settings of approximately 200-225 gallons per hour, or more than twice the fuel consumption listed for those settings in the Flight Planner Charts of the Pilot's Notes for the Mosquito FB 6.

CONCLUSION

The Mosquito FB.Mk VI in AH is consuming fuel at more than twice the rate it should be.  If the AUX tank also includes the 63 gallon Long range tank (which given AH's higher listed fuel capacity it may be) the fuel consumption would be more than four times the rate it should be.
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Offline Dowding (Work)

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2002, 04:52:28 AM »
Well described and experimentally tested argument.

The antidote to anecdote.

Offline wells

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2002, 05:25:39 AM »
Karnak,

452 Imp gallons (7.2 lbs/gal) = 543 US gallons (6 lbs/gal)

Offline Pei

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2002, 11:22:49 AM »
Very good Karnak!
All the references say the FB VI had a range of over 1800 miles with drop tanks. Historically the FB VI was used in a lot of long range patrols (for example over the Bay of Biscay and the Kagerrak), "Day Ranger" missions (sometimes as far as the Baltic) and hits on shipping along the Norwegian coasts. There is no way the AH FB VI could re-enact these missions as things stand now.

Offline F4UDOA

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2002, 12:11:27 PM »
What is the GPH fuel consumption of the Mossie at Mil power?

How about the Spitty?

Offline Karnak

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2002, 02:35:58 PM »
Wells,

Thanks.  That explains that.

I went over my calculations last night and concluded that the fuel consumption should be about half of what it is.  With 715 gallons and a range of 1,800 miles, fuel consumption would have to be about 100 gallons per 300 miles in order to do anything useful at the halfway point.  In AH the fuel consumption is more than 200 gallons per 300 miles.


F4UDOA,

The Pilot's Notes don't say.  They only cover cruise settings.  Based on the curves in the fuel consumption graphs I'd say maybe 175-275 gallons per hour at 14lb./sq.in. boost with an AUW of 17,000lbs and at 10,000ft.  It all depends on how fast the graph steepens.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2002, 02:45:20 PM by Karnak »
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Offline Nashwan

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2002, 04:06:22 PM »
Karnak, have you seen the consumption figures here:
http://www.home.gil.com.au/~bfillery/mossie02.htm

Offline F4UDOA

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2002, 05:08:39 PM »
Nashwan,

I see one reference for GPH in economic cruise.

Since all AH A/C are running full mil power all the time (unless you reduce throttle) then you need mil power fuel consumptions.

I am a little suspicious of some of the A/C ranges in AH because I just don't see how some very small A/C like the 109, 190's, Spit, Yak, La7's had the fuel capacity to run around at Mil power with the likes of P-38's, P-47's and P-51's.

Does anyone have these numbers??

I'm sure Niklas does.

Offline Nashwan

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2002, 05:37:23 PM »
It also gives miles per gallon figures at various speeds.

Testing at a particular speed is probably more meaningful than testing at a certain power setting anyway.

I know I'm more interested in wether the Mosquito can cruise at the speed it could historically (322 mph at 10,000ft), for the distance it could historically (2.4 mpg at 322 mph, 10,000ft), rather than at a particular power setting.

I know AH doesn't model boost guauges accurately, at least for some planes, and I suspect fuel consumption at low power cruise setings isn't modelled that accurately.

At the speed Karnak was cruising, 50 gallons should have lasted around 30 mins, assuming they're IMP gallons.

Offline Karnak

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2002, 05:39:59 PM »
The Pilot's Notes say that the Merlin 25's could be run at 18lb./sq.in. boost for 5 minutes.  In AH WEP is 16lb./sq.in. boost for 5 minutes on the Mosquito.
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Offline wells

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2002, 08:24:25 PM »
At +16 psi boost and 3000 rpm, the Merlin should consume  about 150 US gal/hr at sea level and 160 gal/hr at 10000 ft (standard atmosphere).  Multiply that by 2 for a Mosquito, so 300+ gal/hr at full power.  It looks like HTC chose the Merlin 23?  Max continuous is +7 @ 2650.  That should give you ~ 190 gal/hr total.  If you're center tanks are 60 US gal, they should drain in about 19 minutes.  Last time I checked, RPM had no effect on fuel consumption in AH, so to get the equivalent of +7 and 2650, you'd have to set the throttle to +4.5 or so...

Offline F4UDOA

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2002, 09:01:29 PM »
Wells,

Since AH runs at mil power unless you throttle down to a lower boost or RPM.

So if the Merlin consumes 150 GPH at sea level and 160 GPH at 10K then say 155 GPH per engine is fair. Giving a total fuel usage of 310 GPH.

FYI. The P-51D Mustang Merlin V-1650-7 had a burn at Mil power in the Pilots manual of 180 GPH.

With a total internal fuel load of 452 gallons your total fuel burn time at full mil power would be......

1.45 Hours

The longest I have seen yet except the Mustang if you compare it to other A/C I have checked from the manuals. Perhaps I am over simplifying but this is what I am coming up with.

I would luv to see the Spit, 109, 190, Yak, La7.


F4U-1D
237 gallons fuel
Mil power GPH=280 GPH

Duration= .85 Hours at Mil power.

P-38L
410 gallons
Mil power GPH =334 GPH
duration 1.22 hours at mil power

P-47D-23 and below
305 gallons
Mil power GpH= 275 GPH
duration= 1.1 hours

P-47D-25 and higher
370 gallons
Mil power GPH=275 GPH
Duration= 1.34hours

F4U-1
361 gallons
Mil power GPH= 280GPH
Duration= 1.29Hours


P-51D
269 gallons
Mil power GPH= 180 GPH
Duration= 1.49

Offline GScholz

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2002, 07:12:00 AM »
The 109's

Bf109-E4 (DB 601A powered) and Bf109-F4 (DB 601E powered)
Fuel capacity: 400 Liters (88 Imperial Gallons) *
Fuel consumption: 0.45 lb/hp/hr
Military power: 735 kW (1000 HP) at 2400 RPM
Endurance at military power:  1.4 hours

Bf109-G series (DB 605 A,B and C powered)
Fuel capacity: 400 Liters (88 Imperial Gallons) *
Fuel consumption: .473 lb/hp/hr maximum cruising, sea level
Military power: 1,075 hp at 2,300 RPM at sea level
Endurance at military power:  1.25 hours

*) As far as I have been able to find, all Emil's (post V13 prototype), Franz' and Gustav's had 400 liter internal fuel tanks except the two seat G12 which had a reduced 240 liter capacity to accommodate the instructors seat.

Note: I've taken these stats from various internet sources (avoiding the obvious bogus ones) so obviously absolute accuracy is questionable. Should be good for general comparison though.
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Offline Karnak

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2002, 07:33:07 PM »
OK, you guys are officially nuts and blind.

To argue that an aircraft with a 1,200mile range should run out of fuel faster than an aircraft with a 450 mile range is just bizarre.

You guys actually think the Mosquito's fuel endurance should be less than the Spitfire Mk IX's?

You know, there is a reason the RAF liked the Mosquito so much, and its not because it is more capable than the Typhoon.  Its that it was very capable and could range all over German controled territory.  It could do shipping interdiction in the Baltic when based in Scotland.

The Mosquito as modeled in AH would never have been that successful.
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Offline F4UDOA

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Mosquito FB.Mk VI fuel consumption: Tests and documentation
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2002, 11:11:28 AM »
Karnak,

Have you read my La-7 post?

HoHun had conclusive proof that the range on it is way to long at Mil power. I have the same suspicion of many A/C with smaller fuel tanks.

Do you know what engine the Spit IX is modeled with? How about the Mossie? The Merlin in the P-51D V-1650-7 used 180GPH(Gallons per hour) at Mil power. The Spit IX only had a 137 gallons tank. I don't know if it was the same engine but that doesn't leave much time to fly at mil power.

I believe either one or two things happened. Either the range of some A/C is based on Imperial gallons instead of US gallons. Or HTC decided to even the playing field and make all A/C range comprable. Whcih really hurts the birds that carry allot of fuel.

HT/Pyro aren't saying anything on this one so who knows.