Author Topic: Bogey running, you're chasing...  (Read 1033 times)

Offline Fancy

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« on: October 29, 2002, 04:09:32 PM »
... but you know you won't catch him.  He'll proably run till about 2.5 out, Immelman and merge, thus turning your advantageous spot on his six to an equal (AT BEST) 12 on 12 merge.  I always find myself falling into this pattern and I know there's got to be a better way.  I usually fly 190 variants so I chase for a little while, but there are a good number of planes that can pull away from me.

Offline Mooja

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2002, 04:59:42 PM »
I'm new myself but i'll try to answer with what i've learned so far.  

While the nme is in front of you and going away you're o.k. so stay in that position even if they're faster.  The exception to this is planes that have guns sticking out the back.  Only follow these untill they start shooting at you then break off and find another nme.

If the nme stops running and pulls a fancy maneuver like the one you described try your best at an HO by aiming directly at the bog and start blazing guns from about 2.0 out and don't let off until he either goes by or your guns stop making noises.  Hopefully you'll get a lucky shot and place a round right between his glassballs.

If you miss on the HO, auger and then re-up from a safe place with lots of green dots around.

This strategy has been working well for me and I rarely get shot down following these simple steps.

BOL

Offline john9001

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2002, 05:08:22 PM »
when a faster bogie starts to extend , you can reverse right now and get sepration OR if you want to pursue go into a shallow climb , the bogie will be running flat or even diving to get sepration, if the bogie keeps on going you have got some alt back , but if he reverses you will have alt and/or speed on him.

44MAG

Offline Fancy

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2002, 05:20:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mooja
If the nme stops running and pulls a fancy maneuver like the one you described try your best at an HO by aiming directly at the bog and start blazing guns from about 2.0 out and don't let off until he either goes by or your guns stop making noises.  Hopefully you'll get a lucky shot and place a round right between his glassballs.


You're new so I'm going to help YOU out.  The reason I even brought this up in the first place is that I was looking for a solution that didn't involve the HO.  HO's are generally a lose-lose proposition.   As is spraying ammo in a general direction.  The idea here is to survive to kill again.  Almost all HOs that are executed fully lead to the crippling of both planes.  If achieveing a net gain of zero is your goal, then the HO is for you.  When forced into the HO, here is what I do:   fire a salvo at about 1.3, then break.  I would fly away from every HO you and I ever had and you would be pulling the ripcord.  Now look at the answer 44MAG gave (thank you, by the way), and see that he survives, avoids fire, and tries to amneuver himself into an advantageous position.

Offline Mooja

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2002, 05:25:06 PM »
O.k. but i'm just telling you that you can't argue with success.  I very rarely get shot down.

;)

Offline HFMudd

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2002, 05:51:41 PM »
Fancy,

I'd try spitting that hook out before Mooja gets you all the way back to the boat. :)

Offline Ack-Ack

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2002, 07:34:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mooja
I'm new myself but i'll try to answer with what i've learned so far.  

While the nme is in front of you and going away you're o.k. so stay in that position even if they're faster.  The exception to this is planes that have guns sticking out the back.  Only follow these untill they start shooting at you then break off and find another nme.

If the nme stops running and pulls a fancy maneuver like the one you described try your best at an HO by aiming directly at the bog and start blazing guns from about 2.0 out and don't let off until he either goes by or your guns stop making noises.  Hopefully you'll get a lucky shot and place a round right between his glassballs.

If you miss on the HO, auger and then re-up from a safe place with lots of green dots around.

This strategy has been working well for me and I rarely get shot down following these simple steps.

BOL



Not a good tactic, since manuevering for the HO shot will most likely get you killed, and at best blow any advantage you hope to get in the merge.

If you see the enemy reverse and re-enter the merge, standard merge tactics apply.


ack-ack
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Offline 214thCavalier

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2002, 07:41:20 PM »
Hey HFMudd looks like he landed 2 ;)

Offline Mooja

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2002, 11:12:05 PM »
Ack, I know what i'm talking about.  I've been playing now for over three weeks.  The HO is your best chance of success.  If the nme gets by you on the HO they'll immediately be directly behind you with guns blazing.  I've seen it happen time after time.  Believe me.  If you don't shoot on the HO you won't get another chance.  I've found most guys won't even shoot back on an HO so you get free shots with no risk.  If he does shoot back then at least you're on level ground with a 50-50 chance of winning.  I'll take a 1 to 1 kill ratio any day.  

As for kills don't be too worried about those.  Those are easy to get.  When I first started I was on the end of the runway trying to start the engine and the next thing I knew something blew up beside me and a message popped up on my screen that said I got a kill on somebody.  Believe me it's much easier to get kills than it is to keep the nme in front of you.

As for other strategies, take 44's example where you climb into them.   Now the bogs just gonna turn around and then he's moving fast and you're moving slow (climbing).   Who do you think is gonna be the easiest target to hit?  The slow one is.  Plus, when you're climbing it's harder to aim on the HO.  44's other strategy was to turn around on the bog and I'll just say that is about the worst thing you can do.  When you turn around now the bogs behind you and in a few seconds his guns will be blazing and you'll be a puff of smoke.  This strategy may work if you're in a plane with guns sticking out the back end cause they're very dangerous.  A plane that can shoot in two directions at the same time will always win over a plane that can only shoot in one.  It's just plain logic.  

When you get more advanced and make it up to about 25K feet you'll start to see some very dangerous planes.  I saw three huge white ones up there once that had guns sticking out in every direction.   Be careful though cause you can't see the guns till you get very close.  Those three took me by surprise that time and shot me down before I got a chance to auger.

In a normal, uni-directional shooting plane your main focus should be to always keep the nme in front of you.  As soon as you notice an nme is behind you should nose down and auger as that way you make the hardest possible target to hit plus they may follow you into the ground.  If possible always auger when the nme is more than about 2.0 out cause then no one gets your points.  If you watch your plane when you turn your wings flare out in the direction of the nme and you just make a bigger target.  I can tell you from experience 9.9 times out of ten if you try to turn around the nme will just shoot you down anyway.  So you can see the HO's are your best shot and after that it's pointless to do anything but auger.

Offline john9001

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2002, 12:03:47 AM »
grasshopper , you understood nothing i said.

44MAG

Offline stegor

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2002, 01:51:27 AM »
Quote
If you miss on the HO, auger and then re-up from a safe place with lots of green dots around.



Quote
Those three took me by surprise that time and shot me down before I got a chance to auger.




Quote
If possible always auger when the nme is more than about 2.0 out cause then no one gets your points.




Quote
So you can see the HO's are your best shot and after that it's pointless to do anything but auger.



Goshhhh:eek: :eek: :eek:
Please someone tell me this is a TROLL. If it is not , its the most shocking thing I've read by far:(
« Last Edit: October 31, 2002, 11:11:56 AM by stegor »
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Offline Bluedog

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2002, 04:38:01 AM »
ROTFLMAO!   Mooja, cracked me up......some very astute observations to say the least.

Blue

Offline Betown

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2002, 06:32:35 AM »
Mooja,
     Be aware, you have been flying his game for 3 weeks.... Even if you have been flying this game solid for 3 weeks it does not compare to the experience that some flyers have in this game... A whole lota folks have been flying this game since it's release almost 3 years ago! Even more have been flying realistic sims like this for anything up to 14 years. There is a fair bit of experience there.

I guess it's all down to how you want to play the game. If you are happy with being shot down or damaged in HO's then that is fine but I would say that 90% of people who fly this game like to live after there engagements. HO's ARE and always will be a very dangerious, risky and unnessisary form of manouver.

The skilled pilot will always find a way out of an HO and kill an enemy at the minimum risk to themselfs and there aircraft.

In my opinion, if you have a 1-1 kill ratio then you effectivly have nothing. Because everytime you shot somebody down you got shot down yourself. Efectivly it's useless.

Look through these boards, read what people have to say and maybe you will learn something. Heck post me a mail and I am happy to do a few sessions with you and show ya that there is more to flying than HO's

Fly Safe.

Betown

Offline gofaster

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2002, 07:44:11 AM »
As soon as the faster plane starts to extend out away from you, you can either (a) chase him but go into a climb that will keep your speed around 200-250 so that when he reverses you'll have some maneuvering speed and some altitude to work with or (b) reverse your direction and head for a friendly plane or airfield.

The idea is that the faster plane will determine when the attack will occur, but you can determine how much speed you'll have when you engage.  Typically, its LA-7s, Typhoons, P-47s, 190s, and Mustangs that will do the extending, and unless the bandit is doing a vertical maneuver to dance on your head, the next attack will be from the front quarter, such as a head-on.

There are a couple of times when an HO will be to your advantage (a) when you have bigger guns than him and/or (b) when you have nose-mounted guns and he doesn't.  Nose-mounted or cowl guns will allow you to begin landing hits sooner than wing-mounted guns due to the convergence. P-38s and Me110s can lay down some serious firepower in a very narrow cone, so they'll usually win most HOs (assuming they don't collide with the debris of their kill).  The FW190A8 will win most HOs, except against P-38s, 110s, and the P-47 (eight .50s can cover a lot of ground, and the rate of fire is much better than the 190s).  I've detonated Hellcats with a 190a8 head-on attack.  Never underestimate the firepower of four 20mm and cowl-mounted 13mm.

If you find yourself on the short-end of an HO, such as if you're flying a Spitfire V and the enemy is in a 190, then you can do a barrell roll and spoil his shot.  He'll blow past and you can either try to get a quick reversal on him (depending on the relative rate of closure) or you can extend out in the opposite direction from him and get your speed back up.

This only works if you're a Knight.  If you try this against a Knight, your wings will fall off, your computer will lock up, your bank account number will be broadcast across the Internet, and you'll be added to the email listings for sheep porn sites.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2002, 07:52:47 AM by gofaster »

Offline Innominate

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Bogey running, you're chasing...
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2002, 08:10:53 AM »
Fancy's method for dealing with HO's works best most of the time.

The person who commits to the HO had better get the kill, because the other is leading the turn, and well into it by the time they pass.

All other things being equal, the person leading the turn will kill the HOer most of the time.