Author Topic: Gun owners and non-gun owners... (Read 1671 times)

easymo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 30, 2002, 01:55:25 PM »

I never have had a break in. But a nabor, a couple of house,s down, had one. The guy raped his 83 year old wife, and shot him in the stomach, twice. He died.

The intruder was a prison excapee, BTW.

Nash · « **Reply #16 on:** October 30, 2002, 01:58:36 PM »

I git what yer sayin' Deja. And for what it's worth... in the great gun/no-gun debate you can put me in the category of I-could-give-a-rat's-arse.

But it was amusing to me... to indirectly label the anti-gun people as paranoid because they're scared of gettin' kilt by guns. As if to say the folks who make gun buyin' decisions based on the width of their hallways aren't a little bit in the cookoo department as well.

So I'm thinkin' about this, and contemplating where I stand on it all. All I can come up with is... nothin'. Guns just aint a part of my realm of reality. Maybe I don't want a gun because I really can't see much use for one. I mean, I don't even KNOW anyone who's been in a situation where they either needed to use a gun or wish there was a gun handy to use.

Thus, I'm wonderin' what alla the gun hoopla is about. And I'm askin', is your world a whole lot different than mine? Are your homes getting invaded? Are your friend's homes getting invaded? Co-workers?

Sincerely...

lazs2 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:03:48 PM »

twice.. once technically not in the "house" but someone breaking into my car in the driveway. I didn't shoot either time and yes... I was glad to have the gun. The lack of dialouge from the offender was refreshing I might add.... really cut down on the hostility.

But... Even the FBI admits that guns are used to prevent over 1,000,000 crimes per year. Pick up any issue of the "rifleman" the NRA publication for a dozen or so detailed examples of firearms being used to save lives. The column is called 'the armed citizen".

but nash... do as you please. just let me do as I see fit.
lazs

batdog · « **Reply #18 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:06:27 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval

My goodness...Cremo called ME paranoid in the other gun post.

I guess everyone in Europe and the Carribean (where there ARE drug dealers and bad people too) should just lock their doors and stay inside where it is safe, for the rest of their lives given the lack of guns in general circulation.

I dont see your point. Besides saying that YOUR way is better and that if YOU dont have the rights WE do then why should WE care if WE lose them.

Let me explain something. Its part of our constitutional rights. IF we allow it to be taken from us where does this put the rest of the constitution?

Is it just something we can change when ever we decide its easier than to deal w/the REASON WHY we see some of the gun related horrors we do now?

The indiv's who founded our nation thought enough over these rights that they went to war. Why should I feel any different.

xBAT

Montezuma · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:06:34 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
Here's a question to go with the one above...

How many people do not enter the house with someone in it because of the possible presence of guns?

AKDejaVu

And how many people have had guns stolen from their homes when they were not home?

wwrrrr... plunk...

Nash · « **Reply #20 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:09:15 PM »

"but nash... do as you please. just let me do as I see fit."

Hey I've got no problem with that. I get out of work at 5 today, I've got to scramble to get something whipped up for dinner, and then there's this cool band playing tonight (at least I think it's tonight). I simply do not have the time to get in your face about guns nor write to my local omnibudsman about the issue.

Don't mistake my post as tryin' to make a point. I simply wanted to get a handle on where/how guns and violence are touching your lives.

StSanta · « **Reply #21 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:09:18 PM »

I live in a neighborhood of girlfriend beaters, drug addicts, alcoholics and a hell of a lot of Hells Angels bikers.

Always noise, always fights. So far, my baseball bat has been enough deterrance when they've knocked on my door asking for money or beaten up people just outside my door. I've seen enough violence for a life time.

If I could, I'd get a handgun. I have a shotgun and a 30.06, but they're stored at my parents place as I cannot fit the safe-like storage device mandatory by law into my tiny apartment.

But, IF I had a gun and they knew it, I'd probably be burglarized once every week. They'd wait til I was gone and then go hunting for it.

OTOH, there's no way they'd know whether I had it on me or not - or whether I'd return in the next two seconds holding the tool of their demise in my hands

.

I dunno. I like Denmark the way it is, but I still believe that it at least should be possible to own a handgun for self defence, if you could prove you were responsible and could pass a state regulated certification.

Airhead · « **Reply #22 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:13:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKDejaVu
... you choose to focuse on situations where deterence did not work... as if somehow that would make a difference.

AKDejaVu

"Deterence" implies "pervention" and a concealed weapon isn't a deterrant at all- it's an equalizer. You want deterance? Get a dog- a big one that bites. I guarantee nobody will attempt to break into your house while he's on duty, nobody will try to carjack you if he's in it with you and you won't be robbed walking down the street if he's on a leash. I'll guarantee you I'd whether rely on my dog to deal with an intruder than have to shoot some kid, but that's just me.

Curval · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:13:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by batdog
I dont see your point. Besides saying that YOUR way is better and that if YOU dont have the rights WE do then why should WE care if WE lose them.

I think you made my point for me.

But, just to clarify....I was suggesting that you are being paranoid when you think that giving up your guns makes you an easy target 24/7 and was suggesting that by using that paranoid logic those in Europe and the Carribean should stay inside...because guns are illegal there.

As to the constitutional thing...read post #2 in Ripsnort's gun post for my views on that...I don't feel like re-typing it.

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:19:46 PM »

curval.. the 2nd amendment refered to tyranny from within and without. That is timeless. Something that as a "subject" you should understand. We don't do well as "subjects" here.
lazs

Nash · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:19:47 PM »

Btw...

"Pick up any issue of the "rifleman" the NRA publication for a dozen or so detailed examples of firearms being used to save lives. The column is called 'the armed citizen". - Lazs

They run articles like that in the newspaper from time to time. Only they're about grocery clerks gettin pasted by stick-up dudes with guns. The columns sometimes begin with the phrase "armed citizen" and go on to describe how a gun was used to *end* a life.

Go figure...

lazs2 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:25:33 PM »

nash... you asked why and I told ya. Guns are used hundreds of times more to prevent crime than aid it... in places with higher concealed carry/ laxer gun laws... crime is lowest. More guns... less crime. If you have the honesty then read Lott's book of that name. It isn't very touchy feely I'm afraid and is simply... factual so... you may not like it much but... you will not be able to disprove it..

By the way... Vancouver crime rate is going up at an alarming rate (my brother lives there) even with the lack of guns... eh (pardon the expression)? Criminals are shooting people even though it is illegal for them to posses guns.... imagine that?
lazs

batdog · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:31:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Curval

I think you made my point for me.

But, just to clarify....I was suggesting that you are being paranoid when you think that giving up your guns makes you an easy target 24/7 and was suggesting that by using that paranoid logic those in Europe and the Carribean should stay inside...because guns are illegal there.

As to the constitutional thing...read post #2 in Ripsnort's gun post for my views on that...I don't feel like re-typing it.

Curval..you dont understand what I'm getting at or trying anyway. The USA isnt a European nation. Our people DO NOT think like yours. We DO NOT have the same history you do. Your a people who accepted that it was some guys right to rule you because he got to waer that pointy hat thingy called a crown and SWORE up and down that God justified his rule as being right.

We on the other hand get sick at the tough of some fat inbred guy saying he has the right to govern us.

This lead to something called our revolution w/intern brought about our constitution.

Once again... if we COMPROMISE our constitution in one area we might as well go back to that fat inbred guy w/the shiney pointy hat thingy telling us what to do again. And let me tell you..Americans simply dont bend those knees very well.

xBAT

Gunthr · « **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:33:40 PM »

I do not keep my guns handy in the house. I wear a gun every day, but I keep it in the trunk of my unmarked assigned police vehicle, in violation of departmental policy. (I tried a trigger lock, but my kids know I keep the key on my key ring.)

Before I was married, I lived alone with my Black Lab. Back then, I kept my gun handy. The dog woke me up with low growling one summer night. I heard a noise in the driveway. I grabbed my gun and went out the door. I saw 4 guys pushing my Triumph Spitfire down the street. I yelled out something like, STOP OR I'LL SHOOT!

They split in 4 different directions. My dog had earned his dogfood for the whole year.

I was glad I had the gun at the time, in case these guys were armed. I remember that I was not at all inclined to shoot at anyone, though.

It would take a lot more than a thief to cause me to shoot. I don't fire warning shots. I would only shoot to kill. And I know that if that day ever comes, its going to be a long day...

Toad · « **Reply #29 on:** October 30, 2002, 02:37:53 PM »

I primarily own and use guns for enjoyment and relaxation. Just completed a 2 week hunting trip through Saskatchewan, South Dakota and Nebraska with my oldest son. A great trip and guns played a major role in the experience.

"Home defense" is just a secondary, ancillary use. I'd own guns for hunting and recreational target shooting in any event.

For those that don't like them, there is a Constitutional solution. If enough folks oppose the 2nd Amendment, it can be revised, amended or removed. The procedure exists and its use is clearly mapped out in the Constitution. So what's the problem?

If you don't like 'em, don't own 'em.

If you think banning/confiscating all guns will end violent crime, just check the stats in countries that have done so.

Cain "clipped" Able with a rock. While many things have changed since then, apparently there's a part of human nature that has not.

One thing that HAS changed is society's reaction to the criminals.

What would the response have been in early Dodge City if the Law had caught someone sniping folks from a dark alley? I think there'd have been a brief trial followed by a quick hanging.

Pretty much the same result had a murderer been caught "red-handed" bushwhacking a citizen of Rome with a sword in the days of Empire.

Now we try to "understand" them and "rehabilitate" them back into society.

Maybe they should just "lose their turn" like they used to?