Author Topic: Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High  (Read 6571 times)

Offline Kweassa

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #315 on: November 12, 2003, 08:06:17 PM »
I know what you're talking about, humble. But I don't think it's wrong. I think I have a good guess which pilot gave you that thought, though.

 What they do, is start a very early-turn before the initial merge, at very high speeds in a fashion simular to a low yo-yo. And that momentarily puts the N1K2 behind the opponent at about 400~500 yards with impeccable timing. If the opponent was just thinking "I'll extend straight", they get shot down.

 What I've learned, is as they start the early-turn and nose downwards, I also have to start an almost 0 G dive to catch more extra speed, to leave them in the dust. Just going straight, is not gonna give you enough separation if those N1Ks time that move good.

Offline wipass

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #316 on: November 13, 2003, 03:10:53 AM »
that particular move kweassa is physically impossible in real life, the nik turns through 180 degrees still accelerating, it changes complete direction as though it were attached to a piece of bungee cord, surely something is completely wrong there

wipass

Offline Kweassa

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #317 on: November 13, 2003, 06:31:31 AM »
wipass, believe me, I know how you feel.

 But it really is more about timing than speed itself. Those N1K pilots time that move so they come up behind the target going straight at about 500~700yards.

 Why it seems that they don't lose speed at all, is because, those guys specialize in long range shooting, as much as they specialize in amazing HO attempts. I can do the same move with the G-10 against a faster diving P-51D, and I'll bet any of us can do it with some practice.

 However, what I can't do, is give out the long-range spray like they do. I do the same move with a G-10 against a P-51D going fast, and I get a window of shooting opportunity for about 1 second, until the P-51D leaves me behind in the dust, extending further out than 700 yards.

 However, those Niki pilots have 900 rounds of quad-20mms. With the tracers turned off, they, spray like mad. And it's not just a blind spray in the general direction like n00bs do. They know how to aim, and aim good.

 They don't have a concept of 'saving ammo', or 'waiting for the perfect shot', at all. When they see a chance, they literally spray everything they have until the target dies, or gets damaged, or tries jinking in horror(which, will allow the N1K2 to catch up).

 Basically, they've practiced and specialized the traits needed to fight faster planes to the utmost:

1) They practice killer HO shots, to end the fight in the first round.

2) They practice the high speed/early turn/low-yoyo merge.

3) They practice long range gunnery, to increase chance of shooting down extending cons.

 They practice those three things again and again and again. Dweebism? Maybe. But at least, it works quite often(until somebody like Leviathan comes with a better maneuvering plane, and uses the exact same moves against them to humiliate them).

Offline Sikboy

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #318 on: November 13, 2003, 11:27:47 AM »
I'm a big fan of the Frank, I'd think the F4U crowd wouldl want this one almost as much as the Japanese crowd.

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Offline GScholz

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #319 on: November 14, 2003, 12:26:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mitsu
GScholz, I already returned as Hermit.
Let's look forward to Ki-84 in AH2. :)


Oh yes, the Ki-84 is THE Japanese plane I'm looking forward to! :)
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #320 on: November 14, 2003, 12:49:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa
They practice those three things again and again and again. Dweebism? Maybe. But at least, it works quite often(until somebody like Leviathan comes with a better maneuvering plane, and uses the exact same moves against them to humiliate them).


Well, I don't use the exact same moves, but I sure do enjoy killing them.  :D

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Offline klem

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #321 on: November 15, 2003, 02:48:03 AM »
Got through 3 pages before I realised this thread started in 2002!! So the call for the Ki84 must have merit! This has therefore probably already all been said but I don't have the time to go through the other pages :)

Ki84 was my fav AW plane too even if the FMs dont stand comparison with AH. When I came to AH I could never understand why HT introduced a 400+ production late war plane and left out the mass produced 3,500+, well used, Frank (not knocking HT - they do a great job but I don't understand it).

We really need a couple of planes to give a sensible Japanese setup. If the Ki84 is better than the Niki ( I didn't think it was) then maybe perk it. In fact I think the perks need overhauling anyway to include late war planes like Niki, La7, maybe even P51D (shock! horror!).... but enough of that :cool:

The other plane we desperately need for scenarios is the Oscar. As far as I know (read) there weren't too many Zeros or Nikis flying over Burma. Mostly Oscars and some Franks.

Offline Karnak

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #322 on: November 15, 2003, 11:57:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by klem
When I came to AH I could never understand why HT introduced a 400+ production late war plane and left out the mass produced 3,500+, well used, Frank (not knocking HT - they do a great job but I don't understand it).

I suspect it is because they had done the Ki-84 in WarBirds and wanted to do something different in AH.

I also suspect that if you had asked Pyro or HiTech in December, 1999 if the Ki-84 would be in AH four years from now they'd have said yes.  Pyro once said that they wouldn't have added the Panzer IV H as the first tank if they'd realized how long it would be before they added another tank.  I think it is the same sort of situation for the Ki-84 and N1K2-J.
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Offline Red Tail 444

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #323 on: November 17, 2003, 11:57:19 AM »
Ki-84 hardly uber. poor accelleration, terrible dive characteristics, poor range. Thank Gid HTC wont model the shoddy workmanship (we hope).

Like all A/C, in the right hands, going toe-to-toe against it you will pay a horrible price! No perks, no japanese rides should be perked, IMO. Perk the HO, not the ride :)

Offline Kweassa

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #324 on: November 17, 2003, 09:18:47 PM »
Poor acceleration? Ki-84???

Offline vorticon

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #325 on: November 17, 2003, 09:47:09 PM »
i say put the ki-84 in...we put in the kate so we should probably even up the japanese useless-uber ratio (anyone who says a plane that has better stats than the p-51 isnt uber is a dolt)

Offline Red Tail 444

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #326 on: November 17, 2003, 09:50:12 PM »
Yes, poor accelleration, BIG problems if you needed to dive out fast, and it would hang on its props inthe vertical vs USN rides. Maybe my data is wrong, I never actually flew one in RL :(

I'm just reading, and flying MMOL games (shrugs shoulders)

Offline Kweassa

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #327 on: November 18, 2003, 05:40:00 AM »
Some comparisons:

Weight



Power



Range



Speed



Power/Weight ratio



Climb



Wing Loading



Fire Power


 ..

 From: How Good was the Ki-84?

Offline straffo

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #328 on: November 18, 2003, 07:13:57 AM »
I allways thought the major problem of the Japanes was not the performance but more the fiablility and lack of pilot ?

I'm wrong ?


btw I'm searching a source for the comparing Japaneses claim vs reality anyone having some references for me ?

Offline Red Tail 444

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Bring the Ki.84-I Hayate "Frank" to Aces High
« Reply #329 on: November 18, 2003, 11:22:39 AM »
Kwessa

In any event, it's a consensus that the Ki needs to belong in AH. Perhaps the next question is, which ones?