Author Topic: Arena country numbers balance (Read 289 times)

hblair · « **on:** November 01, 2002, 12:01:39 AM »

Just wondering if there's any plans to implement some kinda system to balance country numbers more evenly. Rooks are outnumbered more than 2:1 by the knights tonight, and almost that by the bishops. It gets old being over-run on a regular basis. I've played this game a long time, It doesn't bother me so bad, I usually just up from a rear field in a fast plane and go goon hunting. I usually kill the goon and maybe one or two fighters before I get blasted. Or maybe up in an arado and kill barracks before they're resupplied 10 minutes later. That doesn't appeal to me much.

Someone brought up the fact that being a rook is tough these days. Of course they were met with the simple solution of "Just chang sides!" So simple a solution it's retarded. I can almost picture grape-ape saying that. If we ALL changed sides because we're outnumbered, then there would be NO third country. Compute that slowly in your mind people

. Of course there are easy solutions to the rooks petty #'s probs when a player from another country is giving 'em.

Maybe if we all did go knight for a week people would see there's a problem. But then again, 80% of them would probably fight over the 5 remaining rooks. It would prolly be seen as a great oppurtunity to up GV and bomber points by running drunks to empty fields! What people will do for score and stats makes me wanna puke at times.

I honestly believe there are some here who would capture fields offline if the score would show up on the webpage. But that's a whole other story.

Sorry if this is too negative, but I needed to vent.

Karnak · « **Reply #1 on:** November 01, 2002, 12:18:27 AM »

I almost changed to Bish tonight.

I've been a Rook since I started AH in v1.03, excpet for some fun at the 2001 Con. The reason I didn't is because it doesn't solve anything. The broken gameplay would simply get more broken as the numbers swung even further against the Rooks.

People like to say that all sides have their turn in the bucket. That may be, but I haven't logged on once in the past three months and seen the Rooks anywhere but at the bottom, and almost always by a staggeringly large margin. I never saw any other side during their brief turn in the "bucket" outnumbered anywhere near this baddly or this consistantly. The Rooks have been the side in the bucket since November, 2001. True, they have had occasional days where they were on top, but the vast majority of the last year has seen the Rooks at the bottom.

How long is our turn in the bucket going to be?

More and more this is causing me to not play AH. I log on, fight a bit and then remember why I haven't played in five days. A few days later I'll log on again, and once again discover why I don't play anymore.

The aircraft I enjoy flying are usually offensive in nature, or at least do better on the offense. Aircraft like the Fw190A-5 and Mosquito Mk VI. When every fight is against 3 to 1 odds (Bish= 100; Knits=116; Rooks=50, some Bish and some Knits fighter eachother, 25 Rooks fighting on each front = about 3 to 1 odds) the Mosquito becomes a death trap and the 190A-5 becomes very difficult for your non-ace like me to use.

Its bad and getting worse guys. Something has to give.

J_A_B · « **Reply #2 on:** November 01, 2002, 12:39:15 AM »

Wow Hblair, that post seems almost like something an Airwarrior flier would have said! BW has converted you!

--------------------

I agree, numbers imbalance is not only excessive, it's consistent and seems to be gradually getting worse as we get more and more players in the MA.

When the squad I'm in rotated to Rooks from Knights about a month ago, we lost several players--NOT because they had any special "feelings" for Knight, but because they couldn't stand having to always fight the sort of fights the Rooks always seem to be stuck with.

What do I hear from these guys? It's so much more fun to be Bish or Knights, you don't get ganged as much, kills are easier to get, etc.

That is why Rooks are in the bucket and are staying there.....it's just not as much fun for most players.

I stayed with my squad--I'll never leave them unless they leave AH

--but it certainly is a test of my patience to fly Rooks. Being outnumbered in the MA doesn't bother me too much, but what DOES bother me is how often rooks only have a few CAPPED bases to fly from, or all our frontline bases damaged, or no Dar, etc. If I log on, see Rooks down to 5 bases with no Dar and outnumbered 2-1 by both other countries, then you bet I'm going to log right back off. Even I have my limits.

It's the MA strat system that only makes it worse--it is designed to "kick the loser when they're down".

IMO we need a strat system that somehow penalizes the country with an excessive numbers advantage, NOT the country with the least ability to defend itself. Or give some sort of bonus to the badly outnumbered country. Giving choice map location to the country that LOSES a reset was a good idea.

The "War" goes too far.....it needs to be fun even for the losing side, because few people will play a game to be the perpetual "whipping boy".

EDIT:

*After* posting this, I log on and behold, what do I see?

Rooks have 4 bases, 3 of which are damaged and ALL are capped. Yep, logged right back off. Not going to play a game where it'd involve luck just to get airborne.

J_A_B

TheManx · « **Reply #3 on:** November 01, 2002, 01:48:50 AM »

Thanks for staying with the squad Jab

We have to stay for the same reason karnak has to. I do hope something is done soon though. Tonight I was vulched by a guy I respect a lot in the Main Arena for his 109 flying when we were down to two capped bases. I didn't feel bad for myself. I felt kinda bad for him.

hblair · « **Reply #4 on:** November 01, 2002, 01:54:16 AM »

Getting vulched isn't a big deal to me, but getting vulched as often as we do is. I got a lil revenge tonight fellas. They just reset a few minutes ago. I zoomed down to the last field they captured and everybody was landing all their vulch points. I lined up with the north/south runway and sprayed it with 30mm cannon fire from my 480mph 109G10. I killed 4 of 'em and dewigned many more.

It was pretty.

spiegel · « **Reply #5 on:** November 01, 2002, 01:57:13 AM »

well since I dont really fly for any country. I see what your going through and personally I Find Rooks are fun to fly with. Plenty of enemy to kill.. good people. So if it makes you rooks happier I will fly rooks alot more than I usaully do..

Maybe even out the odds a bit..hehe.

TheManx · « **Reply #6 on:** November 01, 2002, 02:00:02 AM »

I got my own bit of revenge as well. 8 proxy kills in a disabled panzer from knights trying to get enough pings to get the credit. It really was a silly evening all round. I don't mind though, because I'm sure Hitech and the community are hard at work to come up with a solution for this

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #7 on:** November 01, 2002, 06:08:16 AM »

First of all, is not the same to fight 1 vs 4 and kill a single enemy than fighting 4 vs 1 and kill the alone enemy.

Based on that, add to the scores the population factor, having the most populated country always a multiplier factor of 1.0.

For example: Bish 100, Kights 75, Rooks 50.
The corresponding factors: Bish 1.0, Knights 1.5, Rooks 2.0.
And then apply these factors to all the scoring caterogies and to the perk points.

This is a very basic, but effective way, of rewarding the people substaining outnumbered countries.

ccvi · « **Reply #8 on:** November 01, 2002, 06:32:34 AM »

Mandobles idea has one big flaw: Beeing outnumbered depends on whether the two other countries with more numbers are fighting eachother or not. Last few days rooks have been luck.

Adjust score by enemy/friendly ratio in the area. (aircraft in the area are already identified for the range voice radio, so it shouldn't be impossible to add that to score).

Also a factor for relative E (enemy/(own+small offset)) would be nice, so vulching something at 0 GDN with 0 speed would score 0 points.

eddiek · « **Reply #9 on:** November 01, 2002, 06:45:34 AM »

Some squads stay with a country permanently. Nothing wrong with that IMO.
Some time back, there were squads that rotated countries each tour. That seems to have stopped and that is where part of the numbers imbalance lies, I think. I'd like to know when and if those squads that did this are gonna start rotating again, if at all.
I agree with hblair.........some guys are so score oriented, they will only fly for the country that has the overwhelming advantage in numbers. These are the guys you see on channel 1 taunting and talking smack about how good their country is, but when the numbers even out a bit, they are gone from the arena.
Play the game ya want to folks. But remember, what goes around comes around eventually.

popeye · « **Reply #10 on:** November 01, 2002, 08:32:26 AM »

The MOL rotates every other TOD. We'll come to save you Rooks soon.

As for a score multiplier based on relative numbers, it should be based on the friendly/enemy ratio IN ICON RANGE at the moment of the kill. Vultching would still be fun, but not rewarded with high scores. A 1v4 kill would be worth 16 times that of a 4v1 kill.

Of course, there are those who don't care about score....

Shane · « **Reply #11 on:** November 01, 2002, 09:37:12 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by popeye
The MOL rotates every other TOD. We'll come to save you Rooks soon.
Of course, there are those who don't care about score....

i can name at least one MOL who isn't one of those.

airspro · « **Reply #12 on:** November 01, 2002, 10:37:53 AM »

We are switching to rooks in tour 34 , does this pic look like we always fight rooks ?

We try and take on the hightest numbers mostly . I got to say it must suck a big one to be stuck in the bucket all the time . Cu soon in rook land

~~PS: Hell we lost one guy when we switched from bish to knights cause of the numbers , go figure .~~

LePaul · « **Reply #13 on:** November 01, 2002, 10:48:13 AM »

The unbalanced side thing is getting old fast. I don't really know what the solution is, but its like watching an old re-run over and over again.

When I was on last night, it was Knit 120, Bish 115 and Rook 51. Some guys dig being the down guy, lots of targets. But the rather consistent dead radar, same old maps and such...well, you all know what I mean.

Is something being plotted or tossed around to remedy this? Its like we're playing Dodgeball, and we Rooks are always the fat kids

Kweassa · « **Reply #14 on:** November 01, 2002, 03:06:27 PM »

Change the frickin' strat system so concept of logistics, at least in a reasonable compromise with gameplay, effects how the game is played.

They want to bring on the hoarde? Fine. Ok.

But then at least reward the guys who have no choice but to play in a disadvantaged situation.

A certain country has more pilots? Fine.

But that S.H.O.U.L.D A.L.S.O. mean more planes, more ordnance, more bullets, more fuel and more organization needed to sustain the huge numbers.

As most Rooks are brave enough to pit their guts to fend of waves and wavs and waves of attacks every frickin' night, giving loads of freebie kills to the wimps infesting Bishops and Knights, please please please, reward us!

Let us know that if we are really brave and able enough to stop the onslaught, we will be rewarded in the way that "the enemy L.O.S.S.E.S. of materials and supplies were SOOOOO high that they cannot sustain their attack any longer."

.....

Give each country X amount of resources which are resupplied every Y amount of time by convoys to frontline air fields. Let's just say, enough amount to sustain a large furball of Z amount of people for three consecutive hours, and resupplies every half hour to sustain that X amount. If a certain country has more numbers of pilots, let that mean more amount of resources spent with each passing moment - every time a plane ups with fuels, bombs, rockets, ammunition and etc.

..

Therefore, when the numbers balance is off, when one country has 2 xZ numbers, and other country has only 1/2 xZ numbers, the larger country will be able to sustain their numbers for about only 1.5(3 x1/2) hours, while the lesser country will be able to sustain combat for 6(3 x2) hours.

So, if a certain country would employ primitive brute-force tactics with dweebs and tards lunging bombs in kamikaze, hoardes of planes gathering to milkrun a base where 5~8 guys are defending, at least there is some hope for the out numbered that if they can hold the base and fend off attackers as best as they can, at some point the hoarde's gonna run out of steam.

..

This would balance out the gameplay quite nicely, even better than fiddling with the perk ratios. Many people don't care about scores. They just want to have fun. So, if they want to have the sort of fun akin to gangbangers raping helpless people, fine. Just let them pay the price for it.

..

It's quite simple and logical. Every situation has responsible outcome. More people = uses more supplies.