Author Topic: Time for PRO-GUN people to put their money where their mouth is! (Read 383 times)

Thrawn · « **on:** November 03, 2002, 05:44:03 PM »

What happens if your government turns TYRANICAL!!

No way in hell are you going to stop a M1A2 Main Battle Tank with your puny rifle or pistol.

You need a...

...TOW missile to defend your second amendment rights!!

Creamo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:01:36 PM »

You won't be able to afford it with your taxes.

Thrawn · « **Reply #2 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:06:38 PM »

Hell, our military couldn't afford it with their budget.

Holden McGroin · « **Reply #3 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:19:54 PM »

Nice try Thrawn... and good humor, but hear is what James Madison said about it, and it is still a fundamental truth today.

"Suppose that we let a regular army, fully equal to the resources of the country, be formed; and let it be entirely at the devotion of the federal: still it would not be going too far to say that the State governments with the people at their side would be able to repel the danger...half a million citizens with arms in their hands" --James Madison, The Federalist Papers

I'm not too worried about the Federal Government overtly attacking our populace in any great force, as the above freedom prevents it.

But the "boil a frog in cold water" syndrome is certainly changing things. If we can give away our rights and freedoms slowly and immeasureably it's not too painful. This is what is dangerous. Should we allow the slow slide, or take a stand at each attempt to slide further?

What did Benjamin Franklin warn? "Those who will trade liberty for safety....

Thrawn · « **Reply #4 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:35:52 PM »

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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Nice try Thrawn... and good humor, but hear is what James Madison said about it, and it is still a fundamental truth today.

I don't know. I think that technological advace in military weapons, as opposed to civilian, outstrips anything that Mr. Madison could have possibly imagined.

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I'm not too worried about the Federal Government overtly attacking our populace in any great force, as the above freedom prevents it.

Oh I don't think that they will either, but I imagine it has to do with the fact that probably all want what they think is best for the US.

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This is what is dangerous. Should we allow the slow slide, or take a stand at each attempt to slide further?

I agree, as someone without rights, that you should defend them.

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What did Benjemin Franklin warn? "Those who will trade liberty for safety....

You do give up some liberty for safety. You still have laws you have to follow.

I'm glad that American's fight for thier second ammendment rights. I just think that the, "needing them to fight against our government, if they become tyranical", argument is not very realistic.

Toad · « **Reply #5 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:49:05 PM »

I think the neat thing about our military is this:

Should the pols ever really turn against the people, the military would probably turn them out and restore the Constitution.

Enlistment Oath

I, _____________________________ ______, do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Allegiance here is sworn to the Constitution; that's a bit different than some other countries.

Thrawn · « **Reply #6 on:** November 03, 2002, 06:53:14 PM »

Damn, forgot about that little tidbit. But you would still be relying on the good will of the military, not your own weapons.

Creamo · « **Reply #7 on:** November 03, 2002, 07:28:50 PM »

You forgot that, we don't. And our weapons will just be a little security in case they have your attension span.

Toad · « **Reply #8 on:** November 03, 2002, 07:34:37 PM »

Thrawn, a LARGE number of the folks discussing this here on the BBS on the pro-gun side WERE "the military".

And those that we trained to replace us are cut from pretty much the same bolt of cloth. And so on down the line. Think about who the US miltary attracts. People like me.

You won't find Ispar (remember him?) signing up.

I'm real comfortable with the US military and the safety of the Constitution.

Thrawn · « **Reply #9 on:** November 03, 2002, 07:42:36 PM »

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Originally posted by Creamo
You forgot that, we don't.

I'll sleep better at night knowing the every Amercian has you to speak for them (I could almost see your steely glare).

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And our weapons will just be a little security in case they have your attension span.

The word is miniscule, not little.

Creamo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 03, 2002, 07:59:07 PM »

Wow... so much for opposition. Man this BBS gets one sided too often and easy.

Anyway, Al Rocker's Brew Pub USA tour is on, so is the Giants game.

Go get em.

UserName · « **Reply #11 on:** November 03, 2002, 08:05:09 PM »

Down with guns, up with tyranny!

Better Creamo?

Thrawn · « **Reply #12 on:** November 03, 2002, 08:20:11 PM »

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Originally posted by Creamo
Wow... so much for opposition. Man this BBS gets one sided too often and easy.

Recap for the stupid people.

Thrawn: Saying you need weapons to defend yourself against your government is silly because the US army is so powerful.

Creamo: I'm an ultra melon.

Toad: It's okay, the military will side with us.

Creamo: I have sex with goats.

New premise by Thrawn: Saying you need weapons to defend yourself against your government is silly because the US army is so powerful. If they kick out the government so be it. Your rifle or pistol will hardly make a difference.

Curval · « **Reply #13 on:** November 03, 2002, 08:37:32 PM »

The argument that suggests that Americans need guns to protect themselves against their own government, which is purportedly so full of "checks and balances" to prevent such a necessity, seems McVeighesque and paranoid to me.

Innominate · « **Reply #14 on:** November 03, 2002, 08:50:38 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn

I don't know. I think that technological advace in military weapons, as opposed to civilian, outstrips anything that Mr. Madison could have possibly imagined..

Was the same argument not applied ~225 years ago, when the british had an unbeatable army? Guess what happened? The military with all thier technology, training, and resources, would be split in any major attack on the government. So much of this would leave government hands as well. A rebellion can't easily begin without weapons.

An important point to remember is that we currently live under a benign government, even if we had no constitutional rights, we would still be fairly well off. The problem is, once those rights go away, THAT is when the tyrrany can start to creep in. Our rights, all of them, keep the government in check. Without them, things would slowly degenerate.

And curval, it most definitly IS paranoid. But the paranoia isn't unfounded, tyrrany in one form or another has, and most likely always will exist in the world. The checks and balances are to help keep the government in line, but there is always the chance something will break down. And when it does, I'd like to think that we won't put up with it for long.