Ro V Wade?

[boxboy28]

I thought he might have been making a "funny" as in the rap group NWA with referance to the NAACP.
Not a racial comment just a funny observation but it is a great way to refer to the NAACP  

From now on in my book NAACP = NWACP

For those of you that might be too old to know what NWA stands for it was "Niggaz With Additudes"  (good group back in the day)
spawned alot of rap artists from the LA area!

Just a lil history lesson .......

stop pull your panties out of you bellybutton before you come back to flame me on this one...


and  KEEP IT REAL

[StSanta]

I wonder how many would vote FOR abortion if it ultimately meant thier current existance could be nullified by the past unrealised wishes of thier own mothers or grandmothers when these woman had found themselves unexpectedly and unwantingly in the "family way" years ago? [b/]


Moot point. Can't vote if you're not around.

[SOB]

political suicide

people don't like having other people's morality shoved down their throats, even if that morality was handed down by an imaginary friend in the clouds.  the law will stay the same, and the people with morals will picket outside of abortion clinics and shout nice words like "potato" and "baby killer" at any women entering the clinic.


SOB

[Sandman]

Originally posted by SOB
and the people with morals will picket outside of abortion clinics and shout nice words like "potato" and "baby killer" at any women entering the clinic.


SOB

...All the while certain that they are closer to heaven than you or I.

[Wlfgng]

Oops, I thought this thread was about fishing tactics.

 

answer:   wade

[Sabre]

Originally posted by SOB
political suicide

people don't like having other people's morality shoved down their throats, even if that morality was handed down by an imaginary friend in the clouds.  the law will stay the same, and the people with morals will picket outside of abortion clinics and shout nice words like "potato" and "baby killer" at any women entering the clinic.


SOB

Actually, isn't that what all laws are, SOB? Morality inforced upon all? Pretty much all laws in the USA can be traced back to the 10 Commandments, which are in turn simply a laying out of moral values.  Forget for a moment the question about where those values originated (i.e. with God or with man).  Without morality, society would be...not.

Understand, the abortion debate is not about the definition of "murder," but about the definition of "life." I think it's safe to say that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (whether pro-abortion or anti-abortion) believe murder is wrong.  The debate boils down to the question of when life begins, i.e. when is a fetus no longer a glob of tissue but an actual human being.  Some of us believe that happens at conception.  Not everyone who believes the same are necessarily driven by religious beliefs.  Even those who are are not all trying to impose their religious beliefs on others.  Rather they are trying to re-establish within the bounds of the law what they feel is the definition of life.  We're not all right-wing fanatics, any more than all pro-abortion folks are left-wing, liberal, religion haters.

[GtoRA2]

I think it really should be a woman's call.


But I think once the there is brain activity it is taking a life.

That is just what I believe, I would never try and force that one someone else.

I am not religious.

[SOB]

Sabre...I was just trying to get Eagler's goat, tho' I am pro choice.  I believe the mother's rights outweigh the rights of the zygote/fetus/baby/whatever up to a certain point, despite the fact that I personally feel abortion is wrong in most cases.

As far as the laws/morality issue is concerned, I think there's more to it than just that.  Murder is immoral, but the important fact is it affects other people, not that the murderer lacks values.


SOB

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Sabre

Understand, the abortion debate is not about the definition of "murder," but about the definition of "life." I think it's safe to say that the overwhelming majority of people in this country (whether pro-abortion or anti-abortion) believe murder is wrong.  The debate boils down to the question of when life begins, i.e. when is a fetus no longer a glob of tissue but an actual human being.  Some of us believe that happens at conception.  Not everyone who believes the same are necessarily driven by religious beliefs.  Even those who are are not all trying to impose their religious beliefs on others.  Rather they are trying to re-establish within the bounds of the law what they feel is the definition of life.  We're not all right-wing fanatics, any more than all pro-abortion folks are left-wing, liberal, religion haters.

When the fetus becomes human is a spiritual argument.

Bottom line... a fetus is a parasite and all the rights belong to the host.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Sandman_SBM


When the fetus becomes human is a spiritual argument.

Bottom line... a fetus is a parasite and all the rights belong to the host.

Gotta call a spade a spade, eh Sandman?

For all intents and purposes that is the basis of the Pro-Choice arguement.  When the fetus achives viability outside the uterus, it is an idependentent entity and thus has moral authority of it's own.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Thrawn


Gotta call a spade a spade, eh Sandman?

For all intents and purposes that is the basis of the Pro-Choice arguement.  When the fetus achives viability outside the uterus, it is an idependentent entity and thus has moral authority of it's own.

Might as well put it out there...

It's been a few years since we did all that pre-natal lamaz training stuff... IIRC, the woman's immune system is trying to terminate the fetus as well.

[midnight Target]

When does a zygote become a human?

Brain activity?

Spinal chord development?

Facial expresion?

Cellular differentiation?

When the sperm enters the egg?

Who will decide this not so black and white question?

One thing that kinda makes me crack up is that the Anti-choice guys want to identify the embryo as early as possible, when there is no discernable differentiation between a human and a deer.

But they would have no qualms about pulling the trigger on bambi when it is decidedly well past the "viable" stage.

If you don't want the woman deciding what to do with the fetus then don't give her one.

[bounder]

What MT said

the human being is becomes a thinking entity at day 49 post conception, when the embryonic pineal gland releases n,nDimethyltryptamine into the cerebrospinal fluid. This is a theory, I admit. (Rick Strassman and others came up with it).

Fetal Viability Age is constantly being pushed back towards this moment, but has some way to go. The point being that if we take the argument :
' Abortion acceptable until fetus is viable outside womb'
then this window is shrinking.

IMO it's woman's right to choose. Women have been aborting their children since the year dot. No-one is going to stop that, but repressive legislation against abortion (i.e complete ban) will only force women into dangerous, non medical methods.

No one is saying that abortion is nice, but for a country where mentally subnormal inmates are regularly executed, the 'pro-life' campaign is missing the point IMO.

I can certainly understand that it's an enormously emotive issue, but if we are to be guided by the ten commandments and the teachings of Jesus, we should approach women who want to abort their fetuses with compassion love and understanding, not hate, threats and violence.

As a man, one can have no meaningful conception (pun intended) of what it must be like to:a) be pregnant and b)be in the tragic position of having to choose between giving birth to an unloved, unwanted, possibly malformed or congenitally disabled child, and terminating the 'life' of a fetus. That's not to ignore the phenomenon of 'convenience abortions' :

"I'm off to Aspen for a fortninghts skiing, I can't possibly be pregnant" (it does happen but it is comparatively rare).

There should be a limit on when abortions can be carried out. No one wants to see babies delivered by caesarean and then 'terminated'.

Also many brands of Contraceptive pills for women prevent successful implantation, but not necessarily conception, and as such are functionally equivalent with abortion. (if you believe that the human being is created at the moment of conception).

That's where the abortion debate belongs, IMO, in defining and refining that crucial rubicon moment when suddenly the unborn child is granted equal rights to the mother.

And FWIW 'Morals' has its roots in 'Mores' meaning 'Custom', no divine origin has ever been demonstrated.

[Holden McGroin]

I think you would have to be a nazi to think that abortion in the last few weeks is acceptable.  I also think that some woman who comes back from a party and doesn't remember what she did last night should have the option to alleviate a mistake. (rape and incest is a given)

Even though I think the above, I think that the Pro-life folks have the most defensible position.  

When does viability occur?  Is it different when across the street from John-Hopkins pre-mie ward than it would be in the Yukon?  How can ethics be geographically specific?

What happens in the future when someone in animal husbandry field develops an artificial womb?

Just food for thought..

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I think you would have to be a nazi to think that abortion in the last few weeks is acceptable.  I also think that some woman who comes back from a party and doesn't remember what she did last night should have the option to alleviate a mistake. (rape and incest is a given)

Even though I think the above, I think that the Pro-life folks have the most defensible position.  

When does viability occur?  Is it different when across the street from John-Hopkins pre-mie ward than it would be in the Yukon?  How can ethics be geographically specific?

What happens in the future when someone in animal husbandry field develops an artificial womb?

Just food for thought..

roadkill... the pro-life folks want to impose their morals on someone else. They want to set up criteria for when a woman can or cannot do what she likes with her own body. Leave it to the woman. She's the ultimate authority of her own body. Not the court, not the state, not you or anyone else.

Once again... late term abortions are exceedingly dangerous. They are not done on a whim or because a woman simply decides to terminate a pregancy. They are done in dire circumstances. Given the choice between her own life or the life of an unborn child, the mother should be able to choose her life first.