Author Topic: One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........  (Read 1152 times)

Offline Pongo

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2001, 04:28:00 PM »
That is an interesting speculation but not valid I think. If it were true that the number of paint schemes was limiting the number of AC we can see at one time then a wider variety of AC would reach that limit sooner. But that is not the case. It is set to 32.(I believe)That really rings of an arbitrairy limit decided on by HT as to how many AC he would send detailed close range position, vector and damage status for to each player. I dont think that more or more detailed models are useful. The vast majority of the time you cant see the detail of the enemy anyway.

Offline AKSWulfe

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2001, 04:33:00 PM »
Perhaps the plane limit wouldn't kick in, but certainly some type of limit would have to be set.

If you've ever played an MMP game where 40+ players all had either their own paint scheme or a squad paint scheme, then you'd find out just how fast your system(any kind) will tank when a good variety of a/c and paint schemes are in view.
-SW

Offline Vruth

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2001, 04:40:00 PM »
No offence SW, but the worlds most popular flight simulator has proved that model does actually work.


Microsoft's Flight Simulator series with their public SDK and open plane design is the exact reason why that works in a product.

You get a lot of people making good products - the end result is software that never ages because there is always something good coming around the corner.

Personally, I would love if HTC opened that element up. Allow people to submit aircraft for evaluation.  Heck, I wish they even allowed me to modify my own paint schemes just like the sounds.

V.

[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: Vruth ]

Offline AKSWulfe

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2001, 04:57:00 PM »
Vruth, what model? Yes, it does work for them. There is no need for MS to double check everything and make sure it's all fine and dandy.

The end user makes everything. In this case, end users only make the models. So what's so good about these models created by users if no one can fly them? Open up the FM to end users? No way in hell, that's suicide for HTC.

In the end there is no benefit other than to put a muzzle on those who keep screaming for the ability to make models.
-SW

highflyer

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2001, 05:35:00 PM »
Wulf, shaaaaaaddddupp already dang.  :rolleyes: your always Mr. negitivity

lol letting the USER contribute to an already good product can only make it better.

(infact HTC already does this right?.. I mean this message board of sorts, aids HTC in Ideas, and the direction of what their end users would like to go)

I can only speculate that HTC does all the flight modeling for the Aircraft within thier physics engine of sorts.  

Letting someone make a flourecent green p51 would and should do nothing to the quaility of HTC's product (although it would seem pretty funny  ;) to fight such an ugly 51  :D


Didnt HTC already say that they dont create the FM based on the physical shape of the Model?  So, if a user created a pheasible model, HTC could then plug in all the data for the Characteristics of that model and wa-la.. a new user contributed plane?

Then again its HTCs baby, they will run it how they choose  :p

just Some Thoughts

Offline Skuzzy

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2001, 06:19:00 PM »
Uhmmm,..not being negative, but there is more to a model than just the outside or the FM.

Cockpits?  Cockpits are a lot of work.  LOD models?  How to get them designed and how many?  All the associated textures?  Textures are not just square bitmaps filled with something.  The something in the bitmap may or may not have a specific shape to match a contour, or for texture wrapping.

A model can look great be be badly designed.  (i.e. overlapping polys, normals not set right for interior polys, which can cause lighting problems, and the list goes on.)

Then these is the issue with vertices.  Should they be shared or not?  What about specular and alpha?

I am not saying players should not be allowed, I am just saying I do not think most people have much of an idea what goes into the designing of a 3D model.

On the surface, it sounds like it would be cool, but the reality is very different.  To take a badly designed model and rework it can take as much time as designing one from scratch.

HTC has insight into exactly the way a model must be done to fit into the world.  This is information they cannot give out, as it then opens the door for how they do what they do.

Even if you manage to get the model done correctly, they would have to do the research for the FM.  This is a very time consuming process.
Okay, so they open the door and give out thier FM models, which would be business suicide,...who is going to verify the information the player supplies?  Again, it does not save much, if any, time.

Anywho,,..just me two cents worth.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
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Offline AKSWulfe

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2001, 08:30:00 PM »
Maybe because Mr Negativity happens to know more about what goes into a computer game than the guys screaming for modding capability.

I said everything Skuzzy said, aside from the detailed particulars on lighting and texturing a model, let alone the LOD models, and I get bushwhacked by the village idiot and one of Oleg's/The Rat's buttmunches.

Like I said, I'm not being negative, I *AM* pointing out the obvious though.
-SW

Offline Sorrow[S=A]

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2001, 11:18:00 PM »
While I agree HTC will never open up plane models (for many many reasons) I wonder if they might ever open up other areas to allow contributions.

Off the top of my head allowing users to contribute Ships, Carriers and buildings would allow users to do quite a bit of work for them.

Yes there are considerations in how well they are built. But HTC uses very specific software to build their 3D models- not just sitting down at 3dsMAX. If Nate and super released a design spec that submitted models have to meet I think you would be surprised how quickly people would jump to model the Japanese carrier fleet or a couple dozen new building types.

highflyer

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2001, 08:31:00 AM »
Quote
Maybe because Mr Negativity happens to know more about what goes into a computer game than the guys screaming for modding capability.
I said everything Skuzzy said, aside from the detailed particulars on lighting and texturing a model, let alone the LOD models, and I get bushwhacked by the village idiot and one of Oleg's/The Rat's buttmunches.

Like I said, I'm not being negative, I *AM* pointing out the obvious though.
-SW

Heres a little wake up call for ya wulfy.


<--Been using Lightwave from Version 4 up to 6.5 for over 6 years.

<--Been Using Maya for 1 years time.

<--has modeled in Bryce

<--Has modeled in 3Dsmax 2.0 up to 3.0

<-- knows quite a bit about efficiency in polygonal modeling and b-spline modeling of complex mesh across differning platforms.

<-- knows quite abit about light setup from an artistic pov.

I think the only obvious thing that can be seen here is that HTC does not use programs like these to create thier models, but rather a game engine modeler of some sort.

And if they are happening to export from a higher end 3d/animation package they are not (from what aces high has shown) useing orgranic nurbs modeling, or anything that wold specifically require an extreme lod/polycount  tradeoff.  

Point: with much less, involved the creations could be made quite simple.

My question is.. Is there a specific poly count that HTC is going for.

Offline ~Caligula~

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2001, 01:16:00 PM »
WTF are You talkin` about Swulfe?
I don`t play WWIIOL,and I beta test for IL2.
I may seem like a heretic to You,but I happen to be open for new things,unlike You who`s being negative about anything that`s different from the present state of AH.

Offline AKSWulfe

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2001, 01:21:00 PM »
You are forever cheerleading in the O'Club about either Il-2 or used to be about WW2Ol.

I'm open to new things, but the obvious negative effects on opening up the game to end-users far outweighs it's miniscule benefits.

I'll say it again, I'm pointing out the obvious and not being negative. Unless of course you view everyone who says "Well it's simply not doable" as being negative- in which case you must be SOL when it comes to a lot of things.

Caligula: "I want a turbo charger on my Pinto"
Mechanic: "It's not doable"
Caligula: "Why are you such a negative bastard?"
-SW

Offline Gadfly

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »
I have seen turbo pintos(not sure why you would want one, though....)

Offline ~Caligula~

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2001, 02:31:00 PM »
The problem with You is: it never crosses your mind ,that You might be wrong every now and then.
IMO if people that have the skills and time to create 3D modells for AH,even if they sit unused waiting for a flightmodel ,would be good.And user created costum skins would be great too.It`d free up rescorces for HTC,and still let them have control over how the game is.

Offline AKSWulfe

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2001, 02:32:00 PM »
I'm not wrong on this issue.

It frees up no resources at HTC either. Currently NateDog and Superfly ONLY make the models and skins. That's what they do. In effect, you take away their jobs by allowing users to create them. Then there's a list of other problems which Skuzzy pointed out.
-SW

Offline Superfly

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One reason Why Il-2 is so looked foward to is because........
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
Skuzzy speaks wisdom.  :)
It would probably take us just as long to sort through a player created model as it would for Nate or I to make it.
Plus, we'd have to spend hours upon hours of explaining and documenting polygon tagging, DOF's (Degrees of Freedom), BSP-ing, Poly counts, LOD's, sorting issues, etc., etc.
It is an extremely complicated process, and it changes constantly as we develop the game.

[ 10-03-2001: Message edited by: SUPERFLY ]
John "Superfly" Guytan
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HiTech Creations, Inc.

"My brain just totally farted" - Hitech, during a company meeting