Author Topic: Criminal Behavior and Genetics (Read 413 times)

H. Godwineson · « **on:** November 08, 2002, 10:43:21 AM »

I've been fighting a bug all week and can't seem to shake it. It may be affecting my thought processes. For the sake of our more sensitive readers I will not divulge the nature of the bug. Think I'll change my call sign to "Squirt."

Anyway, while driving to work today I was pondering the difference between the homicide rates of the U.K. and the U.S. Unlike Beetle and some of our other more liberal posters, I do not believe that the disparity in the rates of the two countries can be explained solely by the greater availability of firearms in the U.S. If that were true, then countries like Switzerland and Sweden would also have high homicide rates.

No, the answer isn't that simple. Several years ago there were studies being done on the effect that genes have on human behavior, especially it's possible effect on human behavior. Behavioral scientists and sociologists usually attribute criminal behavior to environmental influences. Inferring that such behavior might be attributal to genetis seems to be politically incorrect.

As distasteful as it may be to some people, is it possible that there is some truth to the assertion that genetics may play a large part in determining if an individual will become a criminal?

I seem to remember reading an article years ago about military recruitment policies in France and Britain during the world wars in which criminals were allowed to get out of prison if they would "volunteer" to fight. The author asserted that a large part of the career criminal population of those two countries was killed off, leading to a reduced crime rate in the decades after the war. Does anyone here know for certain whether this is true? Can you post some links to set the record straight?

What do ya'll think? Besides the sex drive, what types of human behavior are determined by genetics?

Just for discussion guys...be nice.

Regards, Shuckins

Curval · « **Reply #1 on:** November 08, 2002, 10:47:44 AM »

Give it a sec...lazs will be along shortly.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #2 on:** November 08, 2002, 10:53:14 AM »

IMO a lot of behaviour is 'imprinted' before birth but..
and it's a big but (no not like oprah's)

but, we are supposed to be intelligent creatures (humans).
We should be able to tell right from wrong and act accordingly.
Otherwise we'd never learn and grow.. but instead remain juveniile (I know.. some of us don't. etc).

To say that genetics 'caused' criminal behaviour is BS. It's a learned behavior. To some it's laziness, to some it's a power trip, to others I couldn't even begin to guess.

Still, we've been given supposed self-reasoning brains.
Too many people blame anything other than themselves for their behavior.

Animal · « **Reply #3 on:** November 08, 2002, 10:57:42 AM »

Are you suggesting we should re-institute gladiatorial games where the criminals can fight for their freedom?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** November 08, 2002, 10:59:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Animal
Are you suggesting we should re-institute gladiatorial games where the criminals can fight for their freedom?

We have that, its called the NFL (20% of them have been charged with a felony at one time or another, statistically speaking)

Thrawn · « **Reply #5 on:** November 08, 2002, 11:09:25 AM »

It's they recently found the gene the leads to a predisposition to criminal and anti-social behaviour.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #6 on:** November 08, 2002, 11:18:19 AM »

The only thing that runs in my genes is diarrhea.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #7 on:** November 08, 2002, 11:19:37 AM »

I have a certain pre-disposition for women..

dunno why but I just roll with it

lazs2 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 08, 2002, 11:24:41 AM »

This may surprise you that I would admit such a thing but.... I don't know.

I do believe that environment has a lot to do with disposition to murder and culture. If life is cheap in a country then money (the means to get above poverty and starvation) then one will think nothing of murder to get ahead.

I also belive that those who are alienated tend to be resentful and are able to justify murder more easily.

None of this matters much. You deal with what you have.
lazs

whgates3 · « **Reply #9 on:** November 08, 2002, 03:56:35 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wlfgng
I have a certain pre-disposition for women...

that would be the effect of a larger than average sexually dimorphic region of your hypothalamus. it a normal feature of all testasterone laden mamals

fd ski · « **Reply #10 on:** November 08, 2002, 04:28:42 PM »

nature vs nurture

nature: you're born bad. No matter what you do, you'll be bad.

nurture: you're born "normal" and you turn bad because of your parents ( or lack of thereof ) family, surroundings, society, so forth.

I think first one cannot be true in its entirety. Otherwise Hitler might have been right, aside from prabably choosing a wrong race.

It is prabably a mixture of both. Unforunatelly so.
Idealist in me wishes that it was nurture all the way.

Which brings us an interesting question. Lot of you folks here state that some people are "inherently" bad, born bad and so on. Suggesting at Nature part of the equation. Yet in other threats you'll post your personal stories of redemtion, the hard road up hill both ways, that you had to travel to get to the status you are in now. Thereby admiting yourself that nurture was a great influence in your lifes.
So question is, how do you tell among today's lossers, which will redeem themselves the way you did ? If we paint them with a wide brush of "designed to fail by nature", is it even remotely fair ?

funkedup · « **Reply #11 on:** November 08, 2002, 05:05:14 PM »

There's a lot of research (similar to the gay sheep thingy) which points to differences in brain physiology which distinguish addicts and sociopaths and violent people from the normal population.
So you may say "oh they are born criminals."

But there are other studies which show that neglect and abuse of infants and children can cause measurable physical changes in the structure of the brain. Likewise, positive stimulation of infants can enhance structures in the brain. None of this is completely proven, but the number of studies which show effects like this is increasing all the time.

So it seems that maybe "nurture" can alter "nature", at least in children. Stimulation during early development can

But it's also known that the brain's physical development pretty much stops after childhood. After that the only thing that can change it greatly is drugs.

So I would say that if someone is born with bad "nature", they can probably be helped by "nurture" as a child. But beyond a certain point the concrete is set, and "nurture" will have a very low percentage of success.

PS There's a related (at least to the "hardened concrete" notion) issue with ADHD and medication. In ADHD children, medication with stimulants (what is sold on the street as speed, aka amphetamines) causes them to calm down. They don't get the normal "speedy" effect, and they frequently get a great functional improvement from the drug. But if you have an untreated ADHD person who reaches adulthood, they have a high probability of becoming an alcoholic or other type of addict. And if you try to treat them with the medication used for children, it will often kickstart them into full-blown addiction. This is just anectdotal stuff from a doctor with a lot of experience, but it makes you think.

PPS There is a famous case study (they made a PBS special out of it) of a little girl who was locked in a closet for the first few years of her life. The severe neglect (she did not suffer a head injury) resulted in her being retarded and unable to learn language. She wasn't just developmentally delayed, she was developmentally broken.

miko2d · « **Reply #12 on:** November 08, 2002, 05:28:16 PM »

While certain character traits may possibly be inherited - as anyone familiar with dog breeding may attest, they are unlikely to play major role. Average testosteron/estrogen level does seem to differ among races making asians less agressive (explosive violence-wise - they had no problem killing tens of millions in cold blood) but it's hardly a great factor. At least not well-researched one.

Multiple studies strongly associate low intelligence with the considerable increase in probablility of antisocial behavior. Intelligence is certainly highly-inheritable. In fact difference in intelligence explains so much of a difference in behavior that not much is left for character traits however inheritable they could be.

Leaving aside highly explosive topic of genetic differences in intelligence among different racial groups, the higher social and geographical mobility and income opportunities of US population compared to UK or any other European country may severely aggravate problems caused by low intelligence.

Intelligent/motivated people in US who succeed educationally and professionally almost invariably move to 'better' neighbourhoods leaving behind low-IQ 'gettoes' - black, white or hispanic - deprived of any good example, job opportunities and stabilising social influence provided by intelligent or working people.
Children with 'bad nature' are much less likely to go wrong in a decent neighbourhood everything else being equal.

Mixed income neighbourhoods and communities that have been stable for decades if not centuries are much more prevalent in UK and Europe and are exceptions in many US localities. In many neighbourhoods or appartment buildings it's not uncommon for people to not know anyone besides the nearest neighbours.

Cost of success so to speak...

miko

SC-Sp00k · « **Reply #13 on:** November 08, 2002, 06:06:34 PM »

If such a gene exists, then I would say it exists in all of us.

Who has never told a lie?
Why has never stolen something? No matter how small or from whoever.

whgates3 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2002, 03:36:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by miko2d
While certain character traits may possibly be inherited - as anyone familiar with dog breeding may attest, they are unlikely to play major role. Average testosteron/estrogen level does seem to differ among races making asians less...

i can refute that in one word:

Ninjas!

¦¬þ