Get rid of the dive bombing Lancasters

[bj229r]

Gotta agree with Innominate there....i can often hit hangars at 20k or so now...but it takes forEVER..and fighters prolly get ya anyhow while ya inbound (and #@%#$ buff bullets ARE less lethal!)..im gettin to where I just fly A20 if in buff

[Ecliptik]

The calibration isn't so much the problem, it's the amount of time needed to set up a bombing run, combined with the fact that frequently your drop will be WAAAAAAAAY off, and you have no way of knowing wether or not it is any good.

I really don't see what the fuss is about.  I've flown about a number high altitude buff runs (usually about 24k), and it only takes me about one minute to calibrate, and I've never been more than slightly off target (never been out of effective blast radius), since I started to practice in the TA, even when I have to make very slight course adjustments to make sure I'm lined up properly.

If you're talking about the bombsite not being effective when trying to hit a CARRIER.... well, "duh."  No carrier was EVER hit by level-flying strategic bombers in WWII, so I see no reason that it should be any different in AH.

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Ecliptik
I really don't see what the fuss is about.  I've flown about a number high altitude buff runs (usually about 24k), and it only takes me about one minute to calibrate, and I've never been more than slightly off target (never been out of effective blast radius), since I started to practice in the TA, even when I have to make very slight course adjustments to make sure I'm lined up properly.

If you're talking about the bombsite not being effective when trying to hit a CARRIER.... well, "duh."  No carrier was EVER hit by level-flying strategic bombers in WWII, so I see no reason that it should be any different in AH.

It takes under a minute to calibrate.

The time wasted is waiting for your speed to equalize, which can take as long as 10-15minutes.  (it can be done unreliably in 2-3 minutes though, but with a much bigger chance of missing)

If you salvo all of your bombs, there is no excuse for not hitting whatever you aimed at, but you've wasted 3/4ths of your bombs.  There are two situations where a buff nothcan work better than a jabo.  HQ killing, and hitting strat cities.

Buffs can hit thier targets, they can do damage, they can even be moderatly effective.  But a jabo is infinitly more so.  While the buff is still climbing, or flying level to get the speed even, the jabo has hit thier target.  While the buff will miss 40% of the time, the jabo will almost never miss.

Name one other action where a buff is a better option than a heavy jabo.  Explain why.


Things you'd never know if not for AH:  The building of multi-engined bombers was a complete waste of wartime materials, seeing as the same jobs could have been done cheaper by smaller single engine fighters.

[BenDover]

but they ARE effectif at killing cvs, i've done it a few times on my bomber practice map

[Ecliptik]

Things you'd never know if not for AH:  The building of multi-engined bombers was a complete waste of wartime materials, seeing as the same jobs could have been done cheaper by smaller single engine fighters.

Formulating conclusions about WWII based on experience in Aces High is idiotic, as fighting in the MA is hardly representative of the air theatres in WWII.

The draw of large, multi-engined bombers was their immense range, not simple ability to deal damage.  Obviously plastering a relatively large area with bombs in order to hit a single target is quite inefficient, but it was the only option for long-range strikes.  No single engined fighter flying out of England could reach the German heartland to accompany the bombers until the P-51D, and the P-51 couldn't possibly have carried ordnance for a strike over such a range; all their racks were occupied with drop tanks.  The other factor considered in the use of long range strategic bombing was the excellent demoralizing effect they could have in terror bombing.

I agree.  Using buffs to attack a front-line field in AH is pretty useless.  The whole point is to use them to reach targets well beyond the front.

If you salvo all of your bombs, there is no excuse for not hitting whatever you aimed at, but you've wasted 3/4ths of your bombs.

Bombers nearly always dropped their entire payloads on their primary targets.   Turning around for another run was suicide more often than not.  In AH, you'd ideally want to have as many targets in a line along your flight path as possible, to take them all out on one salvo, or "stutter" several salvos in close succession to hit each target.  

Anyway, the whole matter comes down to whether you want AH to be more like a sim or more like a themed game.  Personally I lean towards simming.

[Innominate]

Heh Ecliptik...

The part about multi-engined bombers was a joke, nothing more.  I'm just pointing out the ridiculousness of the current role the buffs play in the game.

Multi engined bombers were used primarily against strategic targets, which could effectivly be attacked by carpet bombing.  In ah, there is no strategic element.  (our so-called strat system doesnt apply, since it doesnt have a noticable effect on anything, unless you specificly look for it)

What we need are large proper strat targets(Built somewhat like the strat cities are now, maybe even denser than that)  These strat targets need to have a real effect on the war as a whole, an effect which is felt.  Otherwise bombers are just ackstars, or clay pigeons for fighter pilots.(depending on your skill level, plane, etc)

[frank3]

lol, wouldnt wanna dive bomb with a lanc, the wings would get ripped off

[Furious]

Mathman and I escorted Raub on 2 or 3 Lancaster divebomb missions to sink a CV.


I think in all he got 1 destroyer.  

That, my friends, is true dweeb cheese.


F.

[frank3]

lol, how heigh where you flying?

[Whitehawk152]

Do you know that sometimes Lancs did dive bomb? 617 Sqn did it when they were marking targets with flares, so it makes sense that a, albeit a lightly loaded one, could dive bomb with real ones.

[DmdBT]

After all this time it still amazes me how people view this as a sim instead of the game it is. If the program allows it, then use it. The only "rules" are the boundaries of what you can make the little pixels do. People get caught up thinking they are flying an airplane... you aren't doing jack-shit except running a program and if you decide to limit yourself on what would be proper for a real plane then I say muahahahaaaa, more fodder for those of us that have seen the light.
So don your silk scarf, tuck your copy of Shaw's comic-book under your arm, and practice real hard the art of fuel management as you frantically search for the nearest friendly base to land at when we whack your CV with whatever means the GAME allows.

Lonz

[Ecliptik]

People who argue from the perspective of "it's a game, play it how it is" don't hold much water for me.  Of course it's a game.  What you fail to realize is that it's an imperfect game, or else HTC wouldn't continue making any changes or additions.  Seeing as they ARE continuing to make gameplay changes and tweaks, they realize that what the game is right now is different from what it ought to be.

A number of people quit the game in frustration after 1.10 when buffs no longer carried their laser-guided GBU's.  Using them as an example, I wouldn't want to be caught floundering when HTC eliminates other dweebery from the game.

[Kweassa]

Then why did they disable the car bombings when initially, it was "allowed"?

 People thought it was lame, and HTC agreed on it.

 Now, some people are thinking that the lazy turds with intelligence of lemmings going kamikaze with a bomb load equivalent of 21 jabo planes is pretty lame.... and with a good reason, too.

[Shiva]

Originally posted by Ecliptik I agree.  Using buffs to attack a front-line field in AH is pretty useless.  The whole point is to use them to reach targets well beyond the front.[/B]

It depends on your target and your goal; last night, I was able to hit a small airfield with two passes in a B-17 formation and take out all three fighter hangars. This stopped the steady stream of fighters from that field to one of ours and enabled us to mount a successful fighter sweep to suppress and capture the field. I never expected to stop the attacks from the field for more than a few minutes; what I was after was interrupting the conveyor belt that was running enemy fighters to our field and let us turn from defense to offense. And that worked.

[Turbot]

Suicide bombers are the easiest of kills, they screw up their score and boost yours at the same time.

The bomb site does indeed work, and from any altitude.  Nor must you fly a formation to be effective.  (In fact I more am starting to think you are better off not using formations)

It is a hell of a time commitment to fly a bomber successfully. Arguably, the time commitment/enjoyment ratio may be getting upside down here, for new pilots and even for most experienced players.  

Bombers are no longer entry level, but an advanced level of play.  Just like anything else, if someone doesn't understand how to use it properly - they will use it in some other more dramatic way.  So, with the increased bomb loads, the Quaker solution previously adopted by a few now has a larger following.  There is a significant population out there who "just wanna blow something up".  

There is a lack of a strong incentive to fly and survive.  Therefore, for many suicide truly is painless - and a trio of Lancs does make a big "boom"  for the "just wanna blow something up" crowd.