Get rid of the dive bombing Lancasters

[Kweassa]

I request HTC get rid of this total bullshi* called "Dive bombing Lancasters"

 The reason CV was toughened up to 8k in all maps is because people are complaining that it is too easy to kill. But basically, unless the dweebs with kamikaze mentality are very persistent or at least organized, one or two dweebs cannot hurt the CV with their kamikaze. Usually they are shot down by CAPping fighters, or miss the drop.

In any case, many planes in continuous dive attacks are required.

 However, with the frequent Lanc dive bombing I'm seeing lately, it makes you almost wonder the dweebs quite don't get why HTC even bothered putting in calibration feature.

 Now since those bozos can't hit anything, they choose to dive bomb with three level bombers in a gigantic kamikaze attack.

 It's one thing when one fighter armed with 2 x1000lbs bombs decide to go kamikaze a CV. But do we really have to tolerate three Lancasters with 42 x1000lbs bombs, the payload being equal to 21 heavy Jabo fighters going in a dive  bomb run against a CV???

 ...

 This dweebery can be very easily corrected. Put in limited conditions for the heavy/medium bombers to be able to drop bombs(except the Ju88 and the Arado234)

* if the pitch plane is more than + - 15 degrees
* if the plane's climb indicator needle is under -1k
* if the plane's speed is over 350mph

 In these conditions the bombs will not be dropped.

 Just as the firing guns on the ground and "car-bombing" is disabled, stop the dweeby gamey-ness grandeuer - "dive bombing Lancasters" !!!

[ccvi]

If something needs to be done about dive bombing it is:

- No bomb drop while pushing negative Gs.
- No bomb drop while flying inverted.

[Mitsu]

I smell that it looks like a runway bomb drop dwe*bs against vulchers.

[Innominate]

First off, those dweebs using lancasters have it all wrong, b26 formations work the best especially for getting through the fighter cover.  Plus a b26 form doesnt even need to suicide.

Divebombing lancasters is a symptom of a problem(Worthless level bombsight).  It's not the cause.  If the level bombsight weren't completly useless you'd see it stop.

Anyways, a lancaster trying to divebomb is an unbelivably easy kill for anyone in the 5" guns.  Also, turning the fleet, even turing the last few seconds will cause him to miss.

In short, a CV left on it's own is an easy kill for anyone.  A CV defended by the two 5" guns, with one of them paying enough attention to turn the CV is more or less invulnerable to the divebombing lanc syndrome.

[J_A_B]

"Divebombing lancasters is a symptom of a problem(Worthless level bombsight). It's not the cause. If the level bombsight weren't completly useless you'd see it stop. "

As proof we offer up the fact that this was a rare if not nonexistant problem before the "new and improved" bombsite was introduced.

Problem with the new bombsite is it's basically impossible for a person with a spikey joystick or a somewhat unsteady grip to properly calibrate it.

Maybe a solution-- a "autocalibration" system where if you turn it on and fly straight and lvl at constant speed for X minutes, you'd get a well-calibrated sight.   Like combat trim, this system would be good (good enough to usually get hits with a typical bomber's bombload) but not quite perfect and leave pilots the option to do it themselves if they want.   Make its accuracy dependent on altitude so above 22K or so the pilot would basically have to manually calibrate or else miss.   This would allow a people to fly bombers again and avoid the calibration routine if they wanted to, without returning to the days of "noskill pinpoint bombing from 30k".


J_A_B

[Innominate]

Thats only half-right jab.

The calibration isn't so much the problem, it's the amount of time needed to set up a bombing run, combined with the fact that frequently your drop will be WAAAAAAAAY off, and you have no way of knowing wether or not it is any good.

What I think should be done is an autocalibration, that takes 10 seconds.  Your speed would be displayed in the bombsight, as well as your calibrated speed.  As long as your speed was within plus or minus 5mph of your calibrated speed, the bombsight would be calibrated perfectly.  When you left thjat zone, the bombsight would be looking straight down.

This wont create a laser bombing problem since your speed stilll needs to be pretty even, requiring throttle control, and no real maneuvering to keep it there.  It drasticly reduces the 10minute+ setup time normally needed for a bombing run, and when you drop your bombs, you're not going to have to worry about the 50/50 chance that they're going to land 100 yards away.

Plus the horrible maneuverability of the bomber formations already serves VERY well for making it very hard for buffs to make tight turns, stopping buffs from making 90 degree turns during the bombing run.


The system we have now works well for scenarios, and could work well for an MA built ENTIRELY around strat(Nothing like our current pathetic excuse for a strat system), but in the MA we have, the bombsight is hardly accurate enough to be of use.

In short, when buffs start divebombing instead of level bombing like they should, something is obviously wrong.

[Wotan]

Bombers have always dive bombed just now there are 3 of umm. Most lancs that dive bombed but before they  would miss 1/3 of thier bombs, now 1/3 is enough.

I watched innominate fly his 26 at 7 k right in with a daisy chain of lancs attacking a cv. 3 groups of lancs and his 26s. Eventual the cv sank. I got 4 kills in a a6m5. Then logged. Wacthing dweebs then listening to them justify their dweebery is a bit much. I remember chasing 4 b17s to a cv pre 1.10 amd they dove in on it.

This game is only as good as the players make it.

Nothing will stop suicide dweebery. But not everyone has to play that game.

Bombers have always been the largest dweeb magnet. Its their sub they can fly how they want. The same for the enmass suicide jabos.

I dont fly cv aircraft but the cv is easy to kill without killing yourself over and over.

I empathize with you kweassa.......

[Innominate]

5k, not 7k.  7k is a bit too high.

AH is a game, and you're damn right I'm going to play it like one.

Asking for ACM or "realistic" flight in the MA is futile, pointless, and downright idiotic.

As in any game, any resource will be used in whatever way is most efficient.  Now I ask you this, which is more efficient, spending 20minutes climbing, and getting your speed equal, for a 30% chance of missing, or spending 5minutes flying straight to target, for  a 10% chance of missing?  You can't expect people to fly in a way that suits you, if there is an easier way.  All you can do is change what the easiest way is.

BTW wotan, with a formation of three b26's, and if the CV doesn't have a decent flak gunner, it's not difficult to survive the bombing run, even from 5k.

[Wotan]

Fly how you want but dweebery is dweebery. It wasnt efficient. You ackstarred but didnt hit the cv the next group of dive bombing lancs did.

If I had more ammo I would have killed the other 2 b26s. But even then the daisy chain would not have ended until the cv was sunk. Dont blame the game design for the choices you make. You try to excuse away or rationalize that its too hard to kill the cv any other way. You think folks are "forced" to dweebs. Its the fact that they are dweebs which is why they participate in dweeby behavior.

The game is only as good or bad as us players decide to make it.

Kweassa is right. No rationalization to explain their behavior will change it.

[Tumor]

BAH!!  Dive bombing Lancs.. Death-Stars (who manage to get airborne at fields under attack), Suicide bombers...  One ping Osti kills..... the list goes on.  It  don't matter.. HTC depends too much on thier monthly payment.  Nothin ever gonna change in the MA.  If anything it will only become more "gamey".  AH (MA) ceased to be a "Sim" a long time ago.  If it can be done...... they will do it, with the blessing of HTC.

[fffreeze220]

If we would get some usefull stuff to bomb, this dweebnes would stop.
In the War the US never droped on single standing targets.

They droped whole blocks and that with not 1 or 2 or 3 they did it with 80+ and sometime even more.

And they JUST DROPED. No lazer aiming like we had it in 1.9.
They did it like we ding it now.

Do u think in real war they hit a single building form 25K ????
NO WAY.
Let the hangers be bombed by dive Jabo attacks.
Thats what they are for and that was what they where for in real war
So give us usefull stuff to bomb.
Bigger towns Bigger factorys. And i really miss the depots.
Does any 1 have a clue why they had ben takan out ?

[BenDover]

dive bomb in a lanc on a cv?

BAH!

With the new bomb sight you can drop with good accuracy on a cv

[Innominate]

Originally posted by BenDover

With the new bomb sight you can drop with good accuracy on a cv

Or you can avoid having to spend time climbing, and divebomb and get GREAT accuracy.  Plus if you don't want to bother to land, you can simply not pull out of the dive.

It's much faster, and much more accurate to do it from low level.

[ALF]

Originally posted by J_A_B
"Divebombing lancasters is a symptom of a problem(Worthless level bombsight). It's not the cause. If the level bombsight weren't completly useless you'd see it stop. "

As proof we offer up the fact that this was a rare if not nonexistant problem before the "new and improved" bombsite was introduced.

Problem with the new bombsite is it's basically impossible for a person with a spikey joystick or a somewhat unsteady grip to properly calibrate it.


J_A_B

Another Gem by the J_A_B


Any type of fighting is pretty useless with a spikey joystick for goodness sake, and the reason your seeing it now (in addition to the fact that it just took time for some bozo to try is), is simple.    The way the bombsight used to work was 10x more accurate than laser guided modern bombs.  Why dive bomb when you can drop from 30k within a few inches ???


If we add auto calibration, we need auto aim, auto ACM and auto evade too.....this will accomadate all those not willing to practice with instant success.


No no, I ve got a better idea...why bother with this whole game thing, I'll just click on the AH logo, and I imediately get a message about how great I am and how many dozzen kills I just landed....we can have the message go out to all AH subscribers.


Yea I think that dive bombing a Lanc may be gaming the game somewhat, but its not that big of a deal.  Fighter cap would negate this tactic since no buff could divebomb from more than 7-10k


THe big thing I think would help is SHIP SPECIFIC ORDANANCE (armor piercers and such).  Give naval attack planes a reason for flying....why take an avenger, when you can take an F6f or F4u is the problem now.....

my   2¢

[Innominate]

Originally posted by ALF

If we add auto calibration, we need auto aim, auto ACM and auto evade too.....this will accomadate all those not willing to practice with instant success.

This post is quite simply, stupid.

You're pointing out a solution to a nonexistant problem.

The problem ISN'T that you need to practice bombing.(Hell, you don't even need to practice!)  It's that GETTING that calibration is so whoopee slow that you're better off divebombing.

It's not "Spend 10 minutes climbing to target, level, use ultra-practiced calibration skillz, and get your bombs near the target".  It IS "Spend 10minutes climbing, another 10 minutes in level flight waiting for speed to equalize, another 5 minutes to line up, another 5 to calibrate, and then you have absolutly no way of knowing how the drop will go untill you actually drop".

It takes three times as long to do a level bombing run as it does to divebomb.  That is not an insignificant difference, those who divebomb in buffs aren't just ones who "Don't have the skillz" to use the level bombsight.

You're not going to do anything to dent divebombing buffs untill there is some kind of way for a buff pilot to be sure that his bombs are going to hit what he aimed for.

And while real buffs didnt have pinpoint accuracy, they had massive target areas.  Industrual complexes, etc.  Strategic bombing won the war.  

In AH, strategic targets are just as bad for buffs as fields(Except for the strat cities), and even then, the sheer amount of effort required to have an effect that lasts more than 10minutes, makes it worthless.  Even WITH all of that effort, nothing short of a dead HQ has any significant effect on the war.

Right now buffs have two effective uses.  Killing HQ's, and sinking CV's.  Anything else, you're better off in a jabo.

Bigger strat targets won't matter one bit, unless strat plays a real role in the game.  Simply killing off a buff's ability to divebomb, as gamey as it is, will eliminate half of the use of bombers.

Buffs are porked.