Tis a sad day :(

[Sachs]

Originally posted by AKDejaVu:
So.. how many kills SHOULD the 152 have?

I do agree its perk cost should be lowered (to around 15), but you need to give an acceptable number for kills here.  How many kills should the 152 be getting each tour?

AKDejaVu

How many sheep are in a farmers flock?  That answer your question?   At any rate I would be happy even with 15, I would even suggest upping the value on fighters such as a 202 to say 60-65 eny value.  Just so it could get more usage.  Make it more appealing to fly is what I am getting at.  Yes the 152 has a 30mm landing it is a whole new subject.  If you read my post in aircaft about adding attack options for the ju88 and tbm you would see more usage out of those as well.  Even the b-26 should have an attack option.  I hope this enlightens it a little more where I am going with this.

[J_A_B]

"Is this a WW2 sim?"


Nope, and it isn't meant to be  


It's an air combat game that happens to use WW2-era aircraft.

People who think the MA is somehow supposed to re-create WW2 air combat are missing the point.  That's what scenarios are for.

I agree, lower Ta-152 price; it wouldn't hurt to see one every now and then.


J_A_B

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by Karnak:
The propblem with the Ta152H-1 and Tempest is that they aren't significantly better than the free rides.  An La-7 is nigh as fast as a Tempest. Even the Fw190D-9, Typhoon and P-51 are really close.

I agree about the Ta-152 but not the Tempest.  The Tempest is a real beast, especially if you fly fast and BnZ.  It is virtually untouchable and even if you get slow it will outaccelerate virtually any plane in AH.  Keep the Temp price expensive but lower the price of the Ta-152 IMO.

[Ghosth]

Grrrrrrrrr I hate it when I have to agree with you Mako!

Huge difference between the TA-152 & the tempest. Even to a LA-7 the tempest is nigh untouchable.

[Urchin]

Whereas an La7, or a good pilot in a P51d, 190d,109g10,la5,yak9u,F4u(any model),P47(really good pilot), or any other plane that makes about 350mph on the deck is going to hand the Ta-152 it's bellybutton in a fight.  And that doesn't even count the 4-5 kewl_d00ds in spits that will jump in to gangbang you.

It can't be perked because of its inherent 'awesomeness', because it doesn't have any.  It shouldn't be perked at 30 points because it was historically rare and had very little impact in ww2- at least not without taking a good hard look at a few other popular planes that had absolutely no impact on ww2 and were ALSO produced in very few numbers.  

All this is really a dead bloated horse anyway.  There is absolutely no point in debating why or why not the plane should see more usage than it does.  Hitech, for whatever reason, wants the Ta-152 to be the least used plane in the game.  That is fine, it is his game, his decision.  He chooses not to engage in a debate on whether or not that decision has any merit.  Again, his game, his choice. On that happy note, thats all I've got to say about it.

EDIT:  I went back and checked the stats, just to remind myself of what I already knew.  The C202 and C47 (with no GUNS) have had more kills than the Ta152 for 4 of the past 5 months... obviously this fact is not due to the recent 'runway death' bug.

[ 11-12-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]

[DanielMcIntyre]

Perk the La7, Yak9U, Spit9, FW 190D9, BF109G10 or unperk the TA imo.

   

[Sachs]

Originally posted by Zygote:
Perk the La7, Yak9U, Spit9, FW 190D9, BF109G10 or unperk the TA imo.

   

I agree with the last one.  No need to perk teh others they die just fine.  

[Apar1]

I agree about the Ta-152 but not the Tempest. The Tempest is a real beast, especially if you fly fast and BnZ. It is virtually untouchable and even if you get slow it will outaccelerate virtually any plane in AH. Keep the Temp price expensive but lower the price of the Ta-152 IMO.  

I agree with Mako, <S>

[lazs1]

SW get's it... hazed and sachs don't.... but then... self interest seems to be the biggest factor in their case.

If you want the game to be a faster and faster late war game then lower the price of perk rides.  If you want the game to have useful early planes then raise it.   To have a 152 be in the arena but no spit ones 109E's P40's Wildcats, A6m2's etc... is idiotic.... not, sugggesting that they have a place eh hazed?  I believe that most people like early and mid war planes.  They find your ilk cowardly and annoying.   I do not believe that encouraging your behaviour is best for parity and variety.  I would even like to see 51's perked if "perking" is the best solution that HTC can come up with.  I doubt that it (perk) is tho.

Furballs are secondary to getting early war planes in the game even tho furs (melees) are the only realistic, manly and SA taxing combat in the game.

 Sooo... it would appear that it is actually you who is the idiot eh hazed?
lazs

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by lazs1:
Furballs are secondary to getting early war planes in the game even tho furs (melees) are the only realistic, manly and SA taxing combat in the game.

Okay, going off topic here but:  How do you figure that furballs are the "only realistic, manly and SA taxing combat in the game"?

How many battles do you know of in WW2 (or any war for that matter) where both sides just kept throwing planes into a big furball for hours on end, pilots upping from fields 5 miles from the fight and flying straight into combat without gaining alt etc?  IMO furballing is a result of the no-consquences-to-death game environment.  If it were RL, I doubt any pilots would be so eager to entering furballs as they are here, with no teamwork and no heed to personal safety.

Also, furballing is the only way to measure how macho you are?    It's a game for goodness sake, how does a computer game measure how macho you are????  Besides, wading in like Rambo and spinning around in tight circles until you die doesn't strike me as a sign of how manly anyone is, just makes me think they should be playing Quake instead.

And finally, as far as testing your SA is concerned, there is a sig someone has here on the board with a quote that goes along the lines of: "A superior pilot uses superior judgement to avoid situations where he has to use his superior skill"  I agree with that.  I think it is a better test of your SA to avoid getting tangled up in a furball.  I think it takes more SA to always keep an escape route open and to enter and leave the furball when you desire, not wade in and dodge bullets until the 15 guys on your six nail you.  That just means you were lacking the judgement to keep you alive.

Okay, back on topic:  As far as perks go, leave the unperked planes alone.  Reduce the price of the Ta152 a little until more people use it then all is good.  I personally like flying the late war rides (with the odd spin in an early war one).  I think most peoplelike flying the plane they are most successful in, in most cases that is a late war ride...

[Sachs]

Originally posted by Blue Mako:


Okay, back on topic:  As far as perks go, leave the unperked planes alone.  Reduce the price of the Ta152 a little until more people use it then all is good.  I personally like flying the late war rides (with the odd spin in an early war one).  I think most peoplelike flying the plane they are most successful in, in most cases that is a late war ride...

Yup, it was not like I was asking for the Spit 14 or the other perk rides to be lowered.  I personally fly all the FW's, well my top kills are in a A8 which if you want to call an uber ride go ahead but it is a fun plane and not a late war monster 450 mph plane.

[Wlfgng]

IMO the Ta152 rules the skies above 30k...
just ask the (can't remember the squad right now) what the Assassins did to thier purdy buffs and 'scorts  

[DanielMcIntyre]

My point sachs was, the TA 1 vs 1 with equally skilled pilots against any of the planes I previously mentioned will have a hard time staying alive at normal AH combat altitudes.  Unperked it will more then likely not be flown by many people anyway.  Considering the aforementioned planes are not themselves perked, then why perk a imo "inferior aircraft".

oh yes, the TA is great above 30k sure, but considering that its opponents will be B17's mostly, its still gonna have a hard time getting kills and getting home in one peice given the incredible performance and  manueverability of the B17 over 30k

 

[Urchin]

Originally posted by SWulfe:
152 has as many kills as the 202 you say?

Solution isn't to lower the 152's price- the solution is to place a higher price on all currently perked aircraft and perked all the late '43/early '44 onward aircraft.

This will make people fly the 202 and get kills more representative of the work it did in WWII.
-SW

I agree with you whole-heartedly.  The problem is we need some early war aircraft before we can perk the mid and late war aircraft.  I think we only have maybe 5 or 6 planes that were introduced before 1943.  The 109F4 and G2, the SpitV and IX (I guess.. it used to be considered a 1944 plane, now it is a 1942 plane), the Hurricane IIC and D (?), the C202 .. and thats it I think.  Oh, the JU88.  So 8 pre-1943 planes out of 60 or so.  Plus I think probably 8 of the top 10 planes are late 1944-1945 planes, without any early war alternatives.  Perking the late war planes would probably never happen in the MA, maybe they'll start a RPS arena or something.

[Dinger]

you know, lazs is right.  If you actually enjoy furballing, early war WWII stuff is pretty good.  Even better is WWI or Korean War stuff -- I mean those had the lethality at engagement ranges such that a simple snapshot wasn't enough.
Now, on the 152 issue: I won't comment on its quality as a plane in AH since I've only heard second-hand reports from wannabe LW pilots who think it's overrated, and from LW pilots who think it a formidable plane at altitude.  Yet in spite of the modelling issues (like the one-ping radiator), it has close to a 3-1 K/D ratio.
It may be not that great of a plane, but the fact is it was, like the Ar234, pretty damn rare.  Zygote's list is pretty good, except that planes like the Spit IX don't exactly belong with a bunch of 1945 A/C.