Shame on me and some help for JG2 and stuff.

[CavemanJ]

hell in one sortie I took down 3 B17s, with 1 pass each, using only the 4x.50 in me P38 (was outta 20mm)
I'd send ya the film but I kicked meself after I realized the recorder wasn't on as I rtb'ed

[Wardog]

RAM

I can send you film where me 51 kilt a b17 1 pass from hi 6 in dive. Instant death to the b17. All shot concentrated.. Killin b17s with a p51 is an art.


Dog out.

[Hangtime]

Possible reasons for requiring multiple passes..

1. Angles/Time on target-- if your angle leaves you with a poor gunnery solution you may not be able to get enuff lead on him. Lead pursuit is the cure; and set up so your deflection angle gives you the most time on target possible while maintaining a constantly changing angle to the buff gunner. Hi-lo passes from the top or sides are my most lethal approaches.

If I'm flying a buff and see a fighter approching fom this direction I immediatly start a turn to ruin his angles solution and get him into a low angle off tail position. Remember there are some buff pilots out there that are VERY savvy at defending themselves.. never assume an easy kill when you see a buff.

2. Trim not neutral or 'g' loading on your plane is forcing high dispersion to the shot. One to two seconds of well aimed fire will put enuff lead onto a tail or wing panel to saw it off.. the trick is in focusing the bullet stream AT CONVERGENCE into the target area. Precisely! No twitchin on the stick; no 'spraying'.. you focus your fire and keep it on the part.. a buff is a BIG target.. if your fire is scattered all over the buff it CAN absorb the damage and keep flying. If you focus your fire in one area the results are spectacular and immediate.

The reason most buffs survive that firstpass is because the attacker is dancing in the buffs defensive fire, unable to focus his own shot. Usually, due to low closure speed on the attackers part, when he DOES stabilise in trim for the shot the gunner will find the right lead and guess what.. buff wins.

3. Rubber Bullets--- we've all had these.. micro warps, poor connex on one party or the other, whatever. If you notice this condition, just relog.

4. I don't want to perpetuate a myth.. but my gun camera is jinxed. If it's on; I die. I'm not superstitious (hang crosses fingers) but I'd rather not tempt the fates. For evidence of one pass kills on buffs from my P51, I'm sure more than a few buff drivers are out there readin this that can attest to the plain truth. A buff is no match for any fighter in this sim if the fighter makes his attacks as described above.

Good luck RAM.. and stay hot!

Hang

"Stop trying to figure it all out and just have some fun!" -Mino-



[This message has been edited by Hangtime (edited 06-07-2000).]

[Minotaur]

I almost always get the BUFF on one pass.  The trick is in your set-up.  

When I shoot I generally initialy aim at center fuselage.  At range d1.2 I start shooting way in the lead.  As soon as I see hit sprites I try to walk my fire down onto a wing.  As I pass below the BUFF often I see many hits sprites.  The wing flashes over my head, I check my six to see it come off in a nice V shape.

------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"Horsecrap. Sick of hearin it.. "
Hangtime

[CptTrips]

>To press this matter, I am reading a book
>about the British Bombing campaign >on 'Berlin, and there are many accounts of
>Buffs going down on one fighter pass...


HEheh. Did they then spend months lobbying to have that fighter removed from the war?

Wab
 

[Swager]

I do not believe this Sim is modeled correctly.  I am having a problem shooting down C47's.  I get close (1.9 to 1.7) and pull the trigger but the C47 dosen't go down.  
I am having a difficult time finding a reason to fly in this sim because of this!  Until this bug is fixed you may not see me flying anymore.  

Also I ground looped a F4U last night.  I never ground loop!!  So this must be another bug!  

Thank You!!

Have a Nice Day!    

------------------
Swager
XO   I/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
 
JG2 "Richthofen"

[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 06-07-2000).]

[airspro]

 

Originally posted by Hangtime:
I'm sure more than a few buff drivers are out there readin this that can attest to the plain truth. A buff is no match for any fighter in this sim if the fighter makes his attacks as described above.

I know from experance the Hangtime knows his stuff   <S>  BUT I am getting better at messing up fighter attacks now   , quite right , turn at just the right time screws them up big time .

BTY , Hangtime , if I see a High Bish P51 now ,   . I get the loving hell out of Dodge proto .




------------------
air_rules = Play fair ....Don't worry about points......Keep a sense of humor......Drink Jim Beam......and don't let the fediddlein cat walk on the keyboard.......!!!


air_squadron

www.sprocketsworld.com  #1 internet air start page , plus

[Dune]

Well, according to the Air Aces Homepage:  http://www.cableregina.com/users/magnusfamily/ww2fra.htm

The leading French ace of WWII was Francois Warnier of GC I/5 with 18 kills.

------------------
Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Vulcan]

Heheheh RAM u suck ya dweeb:

Vulcan has 19 kills and has been killed 0 times in the Fw 190A-8 against the B-17G.
(Tour 4 incidentally)

-vlkn- in

[SFRT - Frenchy]

Dune, 'your' site doesn't show the same nb of victories as 'my' site for Marcel. Hum, someone as more infos?

[Saintaw]

Very good point here, RAM, fly buffs for a week & I am sure your POV will change...

Buffs are the easiest kills I have, and yes, as Hangtime said, even with my new wonderfull ride, the pony...hey I even took 2 B26's with only 4 .50's yesterday...

3 days ago, I took out 4 B17's in one flight with a FW190 with only 2 20mm guns...

Get on top of him, roll a lot, mess up with his gunning ability and aim for the tail... he's dead meat...

Nothing wrong with the Buffs, IMHO...

Saw

[iculus]

Remember that it was the *F* model of the B-17 that had a weakness for the HO.  The *G* model (what we have) was fitted with the bendix chin turret.

The B-17 was a tough bird. It could take much more damage than a fighter and keep flying.  On the other hand, even with just the 2x.50 chin turret firing a fighter is exposing critical parts (engine, pilot, etc.) to a *zero* deflection shot.

Finally, remember that cannon rounds are superficial (although quite distructive   ).  Rounds from the Browning M2 .50 MG hold their kenetic energy well, and go through stuff like engine blocks, armour, and pilots .

IC

[Dune]

Not all LW cannon rounds detonated on impact.  There was a type deveolped for attacking bombers that detonated when the shell's spin slowed down enough.  That usually meant that it penatrated the aircraft's skin before it exploded.  This caused a blowing out of the aircraft skin which is bad at 300mph.  Also allowed the explosion to effect more internal systems.  Like the people.

------------------
Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"

"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by Swager:
I do not believe this Sim is modeled correctly.  I am having a problem shooting down C47's.  I get close (1.9 to 1.7) and pull the trigger but the C47 dosen't go down.  
I am having a difficult time finding a reason to fly in this sim because of this!  Until this bug is fixed you may not see me flying anymore.  

Also I ground looped a F4U last night.  I never ground loop!!  So this must be another bug!  

Thank You!!

Have a Nice Day!    

Really?  


------------------
Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"I have returned"
Mitzu