Author Topic: Shame on me and some help for JG2 and stuff.  (Read 426 times)

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Shame on me and some help for JG2 and stuff.
« on: June 07, 2000, 12:33:00 AM »
Ok I'm french but I have no idea who was the leading French ace ...ouch... stop...AIe!... not in the teeth...KAI!...
 http://famousamericanaviators.com/Marcel%20Arbert.htm

Here they say it's Marcel Arbert on a Yak 9 with Russian red star. (hehehe some french AH pilots are dying for it I know).

Oh and at this URL, a german ace displays a gun cam of a HO kill on a B17 in a BF109. He downed it in one pass. So stop crying after German pilots ripping ur buff in one pass in AH. Hey...wait... I hate german planes pilots, why do I help them? Whatever, i'm naturally kind hehehe... yeah right.
 http://famousamericanaviators.com/Petzschler%20190.htm

Salute fellow pilots! Fear the Niki hihihi.  
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[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-07-2000).]
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline Saintaw

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Shame on me and some help for JG2 and stuff.
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2000, 01:50:00 AM »
"hihihi" ???? But......but...........you laugh like Garcimore !!!!!!!!! AHAAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!

To press this matter, I am reading a book about the British Bombing campaign on Berlin, and there are many accounts of Buffs going down on one fighter pass...
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline RAM

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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2000, 05:20:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy:


Oh and at this URL, a german ace displays a gun cam of a HO kill on a B17 in a BF109. He downed it in one pass. So stop crying after German pilots ripping ur buff in one pass in AH. Hey...wait... I hate german planes pilots, why do I help them? Whatever, i'm naturally kind hehehe... yeah right.
 

Ohhh niceeee...SO Niceee...so Bf109s DOWNED B17s in frontal passes!! WOW!!!! BECAUSE I DIED AGAIN YESTERDAY IN A 4x20mm Fw190 IN A DAMNED FRONTAL PASS On A B17!!!!!!

FIX THE DAMNED BOMBERS GUNNERY OR DELETE THEM,DAMNIT!


Offline Beefcake

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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2000, 05:26:00 AM »
*cough* I will remind you that when you HO a B17, you are facing 8 .50 cals, plus the fact that when you pass the B17, the gunner can hit you with his tail guns too. So a good idea would be not to HO Buffs.

Also, bear in mind that the Buffs in AH are not set to WWII standards. (thank god   )

The ever informing Beefcake
Retired Bomber Dweeb - 71 "Eagle" Squadron RAF

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2000, 05:34:00 AM »
Yeh, only approach BUFFS from hi angle, best one being his 10 or 2 o clock IMHO.

In the 190, ususally one pass makes him smoking. 109 takes patience *and* good accuracy - gotta land almost all those 150 rounds on target.



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Offline RAM

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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2000, 06:02:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Beefcake:
*cough* I will remind you that when you HO a B17, you are facing 8 .50 cals, plus the fact that when you pass the B17, the gunner can hit you with his tail guns too. So a good idea would be not to HO Buffs.

Also, bear in mind that the Buffs in AH are not set to WWII standards. (thank god   )

The ever informing Beefcake


This B17,at best, could fire me with 6 guns...most possibly only 4 as I was coming from directly ahead, and higher than him (and if he wants to fire the ball turred to his own plane, better for me). Ball turret couldnt fire and cheek guns,historically, couldnt follow a direct 12 o clock aproaching target well.

So I had 4x20mm and 2x13mm firing at a buff that was answering to me with 4x12.7mm...I got him but he got me too.

SOrry If I find this weird but I do think tha buff gunnery is like a joke.

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2000, 09:19:00 AM »
Ram;

Learn to fly better...  

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Mino
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Offline JimBear

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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2000, 09:33:00 AM »
Buffs are not that durned hard to shoot down. My shooting stinks to hi heaven but as long as I am not trying to climb up ones 6 they will always leave damaged or as confetti.
tour 4
JimBear has 22 kills and has been killed 4 times against the B-17G.


Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Shame on me and some help for JG2 and stuff.
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2000, 09:38:00 AM »
Ram my firend, remember that u are in a game (hellllloooo). During WW2 it was rare to find B17's alone but here, for the gaming purpose it's pretty common.

You need to strengthen their parts and guns a bit. And stop whinning Ram, u grounded, eh toc! Hummm, even better, go fly a buff for one whole week and we will see how u changed ur point of view.

When u in a buff and u see a canon plane higher than you, and this things dives, you know that at best you will finish both dead if it's an average pilot. And this is a miserable feeling knowing all the time you waited to climb and proceed to the target.

Just assume that attacking buffs full HO or full 6 (high or low) is not the safest way.

Remember also that guns are more and more deadly when u are closer from ur target, works for the canons and the .50 of the fortress. I hit planes flying toward me several times and they still fly but if I hit them when they zoom by my turret filling my screen, a couple of pings and zip here goes the wing.

When I was starting playing AH, and I was buff hunting in those miserable german machines, I used to fly right to the buff and because of the efficiency of the guns, when I was very close, the buff usually blew off and I was surviving flying thru it. (No debris in AH, boom and you disapear).  

<mais non Saw, je fais des vers sans en avoir l'air hehehe>

[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-07-2000).]
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2000, 10:13:00 AM »
RAM, keep in mind that the major change from the B-17F to the B-17G was the addition of the chin turret.  This WAS successful in causing the Germans to change their tactics against B-17s.  I know that 2 50 cals don't sound like alot, but it was enough to eliminate that as the prefered attack against the B-17.

Sisu
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             As she remembers me-

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2000, 11:04:00 AM »
Thanks Frenchy.

I am reading a book endorsed By Adolph Galland that states that for long while the  prefered method By the LW was the Hi 12 ock attack in shwarm ( 4X ). And yes in alot of cases one pass was all was needed. Here is an exerpt about a raid on Muenster on 10 October 1943 by the 8th AF. The 8th sortied a total of 274 B-17's. The bombers were escorted by the 352nd ( a very rookie unit at the time) in P-47's. however Muenster was at the time out of range for the P47s so they couldn t accompany them all the way tothe target. therefore the 56th FG ( Zemke's group) picked up escort on the return home. The raid was a disaster for the Allies though.---

"Attacks alternated between Head-on passes by FW-190s and BF-109s from a number of jagdgruppen and rocket  barrages from ME 410s positioned behind the leading wing of Bombers. The fighters broke away broke away briefly  when the bombers came within range of the muenster flak defences. After the bomb run, the German fighters resumed their attacks, threatening to wipe out  the leading wing completely"  It goes on to say that  The 56th broke up the attacks. Lt Robert Johnsons AC was badly damaged by a 190 but not before he became an ace that day by shooting down two German fighters.

 
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2000, 11:40:00 AM »
Not tryin to start anything...

BUT!!

1st.. killing a buff w/6 .50's is exceedingly easy.. with cannon's they are fodder. One pass buff kills here are routine.

Succesfull low ammo expenditure attacks on buffs are possible if you concentrate your fire on one area of the buff.. outer wing or tails seem very vulnerable. You'd better have a high crossing angle; and a very high closure speed, or he's gonna get you messed up for sure.. they are tuff to kill; but by no means impossible.

2nd.. I'd take it as a personal favor that if you do not wish to be killed; DON'T BOTHER TAKING OFF. Attacking anything in this sim comes with a significant risk of destruction to yourself; and if you are unwilling to accept those risks; maybe you'd better go fly Microsoft Cessnas for awile.

Seriously.. every time somebody here runs into a task they are not equal too at their current skill level they bark about how 'WRONG' it is, that it's the GAME; not THEM.

Horsecrap. Sick of hearin it.. ask for help; don't just scream at the developers or other players.

Hang (done on soapbox)
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Offline Cobra

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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2000, 12:19:00 PM »
I'm with Hang on this one....I also fly a fair amount of time in buffs, and I think the balance is right.

If the bandit comes in a diving attack than I can't kill him on the pass....if however he dives in but then pulls up to linger at ded 6..than the bandit will get shotdown.

I've attacked buffs from high 12 in a pony and gotten a one pass kill (more often it takes 2 or so passes), and I find that if I come in with speed and a high angle and keep the dive through the run and extend away to re-setup, then the buff can be killed.  Patience is the key for getting a clean buff kill.

Ram, if your smokeman post w/screenshots is an example of your normal attack run, then the buff will have a good window to put alot of lead out your way.  Try increasing the angle of attack.

Cobra

Offline RAM

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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2000, 12:37:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime:
Not tryin to start anything...

BUT!!

1st.. killing a buff w/6 .50's is exceedingly easy.. with cannon's they are fodder. One pass buff kills here are routine.

Hang I can send you a film of me in a P51 doing a perfectly executed attack on a B17, the damned buff endured for 7 SEVEN attacks on him. In each pass I had sound and good hits on the buff's right wing.
The film shows nearly 5 minutes of attack on it. THe bomber had 2 engines gone and was leaking fuel from one wing's tanks. It refused to go down until his (LOL!) tail broke.

If you say that you kill Buffs on one pass, please send me the film...because I need to know how.

BTW after watching the film, my path of approach was from the bomber's high eleven, one of the cheek guns was out and I dont know if with that elevation the chin turret is available.

BTW this is to all who thinks I dont know to attack B17s. Tour4 Kill Stats...23/2 K/D ratio in fw190 versus B17s. I KNOW HOW to attack the damned things. But what happened yesterday still shocks me. A frontal attack should mean death for the buff not for both.

IMHO



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 06-07-2000).]

Offline Minotaur

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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2000, 01:15:00 PM »
LOL  

Ram;

This will drive you bonkers  I stopped trying to figure it all out and just had some fun!

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Hangtime