Author Topic: IL2 Damage model is questinable... (Read 383 times)

GRUNHERZ · « **on:** November 13, 2002, 06:41:39 AM »

7.62mm MG do more damage and do it faster to fighters than do cannon.. Fly the 4 MG then 2 MG + 2 20mm cannon armed I-16 to see that.

Multiple cannon hit do nothing while MG sets planes on fire very fast. Fly Yak1 and shoot at I-153, then take fly I-16 4MG version and shoot at I-153, toejam just compare Yak1 by only firing its MG and not cannon.

Fi-156 Storches survive multiple 30mm MK108 hits on fuselage.

MG give tons of pilot kills but cannon very few, even if you shhot open cockpit plane like P11c right on top of fuselage with 20mm.

Thats just retarded....

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2002, 10:22:22 AM »

In Il2 it's more important to use nose mounted armament than wing mounted armament.

As in the real world, wing mounted armament is only effective close up and at, or close to, convergence ranges. Otherwise you may or may not be hitting with all of the rounds.

I flew in a "full real", no icons, no padlock, no external, server yesterday. Shot down 7 planes flyings the 190A4.

Shot down a variety of Yaks, LaGGs, and several other planes. In only 2 flights.

I guarantee you, I can get far more kills in the I16Tip24 than the Tip18 solely because of those cannons.
-SW

Pei · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2002, 11:36:06 AM »

I haven't noticed this in the time I've been flying Il2: it usually takes a lot more hits with MGs to do significant damage than cannons. In particular I flew 20-odd campaign missions in a 109E4 and found that one good burst with the Oerlikons would take down most fighters while with the nose MGs I'd have to saddle up and keep hammering away for a while.
I do feel that the Soviet UB and UBK 12.7 cal MGs are not as effective as they should be: they seem to be only slightly better than the german 7.92mm and you get far less ammo.

Udie · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2002, 11:49:30 AM »

I quit playing IL2 and uninstalled it because it's biased towards the Russian planes. Take up an La5 and you get 1 ping 20mm kills that rip a 109 apart. Take a 30mm 109 up and it takes 4 or 5 to down any russian plane.

sure is purdy though

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2002, 11:55:03 AM »

I dunno... a lot of the bias seems to not actually be there.. except for the 109's LOD models being the biggest at extreme distances.. that's the only bias that actually exists as near as I can tell.
-SW

Creamo · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2002, 11:57:17 AM »

I’ve found that “Loading up the rudder” is a great kill technique.

I get any position near the 6 and kick in rudder to offset a on the nme wing, usually the right side. Then I open fire and slowly release the rudder input raking the wing, outboard to inboard. This adverse sounding tactic, using lateral rudder pitch while firing on the wing knocks out their aileron. Cool damage model. And then the subsequent fight is a one sided asswhippin. Works on all my LAN players. Only because they are damaged and they can’t turn as well then.

Try hitting a FW190 straight 6 and the IL-2 modeled armor just won’t knock it down. With a full ammo load, you can't shhot that straight.

Creamo · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:01:28 PM »

And udie, stay alive long enough to take me on 1V1 in Il-2. I'll take the 109, you take the La5. It will be UGLY.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:08:17 PM »

Creamo where do you fight IL2 on the internet. I only tried it once - the host was gay just vulched people on take off so I never tried again and I dont remember where it was.

BTW I'll take you up on that offer to udie if you don't mind, I wanna fight some human pilots for a change.

As for the MG vs cannon. I fly the I-16 a lot and the P11c also in single player, the MG armed planes get me far easier pilot kills and start fires much quicker. The cannon seem to have no effect until they actually cut something clean off but that takes forever compared to time it takes for MG to get pilot kill or start fire.

Wlfgng · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:14:20 PM »

hyperlobby or direct IP is the best IMO

Creamo · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:17:41 PM »

Outside of a LAN meet, Hyperlobby is the place to fight. Sundancer has been a real good host and friendly guy if you need help. COOP is where it's at, but the free for all stuff ain't too bad.

You can't duel me unless you say something that just paints you as a complete fool, like "I quit playing IL2 and uninstalled it because it's biased towards the Russian planes. Take up an La5 and you get 1 ping 20mm kills that rip a 109 apart. Take a 30mm 109 up and it takes 4 or 5 to down any russian plane.

He would just be torn to shreds like AH laser guns in this "oh so hard gunnery" sim, because he ain't never flown it. Pry read that roadkill rant somewhere, so I know I would have figured out the views, and would just smoke him at every level, on any plane.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:17:45 PM »

You need to aim for specific parts, hit at convergence ranges (I set mine to 250meters) and concentrate your fire.

I fly all the planes a lot, I can set a MiG on fire with a single 20mm round from a 109E to the wingroot.

Get in close and don't open fire at extreme ranges.
-SW

Pei · « **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:24:53 PM »

SWulfe is right: you need to aim for specific parts, prefereably sensitive spots like the engine or cockpit. Hammering away at the fuslelage doesn't really work too well. Unlike AH you don't get too many kills from major structural failures (i.e wings, horiz. stabs etc.), and it's much more difficult to hit (you seem to get many more near misses).

Eagler · « **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:43:37 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by AKS\/\/ulfe
You need to aim for specific parts, hit at convergence ranges (I set mine to 250meters) and concentrate your fire.

I fly all the planes a lot, I can set a MiG on fire with a single 20mm round from a 109E to the wingroot.

Get in close and don't open fire at extreme ranges.
-SW

close being ? a range please

seems if when i get close enough (under 10 whatever they are) the plane darts away or we crash. greater than 25-30 and the shots never land. this is in a 109f, rarely fly any of the others

Udie · « **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2002, 12:53:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Creamo
Outside of a LAN meet, Hyperlobby is the place to fight. Sundancer has been a real good host and friendly guy if you need help. COOP is where it's at, but the free for all stuff ain't too bad.

You can't duel me unless you say something that just paints you as a complete fool, like "I quit playing IL2 and uninstalled it because it's biased towards the Russian planes. Take up an La5 and you get 1 ping 20mm kills that rip a 109 apart. Take a 30mm 109 up and it takes 4 or 5 to down any russian plane.

He would just be torn to shreds like AH laser guns in this "oh so hard gunnery" sim, because he ain't never flown it. Pry read that roadkill rant somewhere, so I know I would have figured out the views, and would just smoke him at every level, on any plane.

hehe Creamo I didn't say I had problems shooting. The bullets find their mark, they just don't do anything once they get there. I fly german iron because of the cannons. 5 30mm rounds and there should be nothing left. I'll install it again this weekend and patch it up so we can duel. It's been a couple of months since I played it so I'll take a few days to relearn the FM.

What's your name on hyperloby?

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2002, 01:08:03 PM »

I don't fly with icons.. so I'm not very familiar with them. But until the wingspan fills at least the outer ring of the gunsights, you ain't close enough.
-SW