Author Topic: Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb  (Read 551 times)

Offline Sakai

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« on: November 14, 2002, 05:10:22 AM »
Just musing here but . . .

You know, when the A-bomb was introduced into WWII it was the end of the war; it would be the end of AH for myself, too.

It is silly to model a game on WWII air combat with some ancillary points (CVs, Ships, bases, vehicles) then model city killing, society transforming weapons that belong to the next generation of wars and the end of mainstream propeller-driven aircraft for combat purposes.

If you want a game where 163s Chase down B-29s, my god, what kind of asinine stuff is that?

That's not air combat, that's Billy Spaceman and his rocket interceptor.  

At that point the game becomes every other shooter out there.  What sets WWII AC combat apart is it's attachment to the last vestiges of non nuclear warfare.  By the time the A-bomb was dropped, the world had changed.  The only excitement comes in being part of the world that has not yet sold out.

The whole "German secret weapon" and tweaks A-through Z thing is so bloody ridiculous, it misses the entire point of the idea of WWII combat, much less air combat.  The war's most alluring moments were the undecided portions through late 1943-at most the earliest of 1944.  After that the outcome was not in question and it was the inevitable "bludgeon the belligerents into submission" time.  Oh, I know there are some who think otherwise, but the game was up in late '43, early '44.  The tragedy of WWII was it's being dragged out, almost as tragic as some peope believing in the capacity of the so-called Third Reich to have come out on top "If Only . . . ." Yes Dorothy, just click your heels together three times and say "there's no place like home . . ."

At the point the B-29 and A bomb come into being, when we could have the SM79, He-111, Dewoitine, Il-4, Ki-43, Ki-27, countless Eastern Front variants, and many more setups that actually enmesh one into the war that occurred, I don't know, I can't see it and it would certainly taint the experience for me.

Doesn't anyone really think about these things when they request A-bombs and B29s?  Asking for stuff should reflect some thought, not some dream of blasting things apart, but how does the entire society of AH change when such weapons are introduced?  The 262 and A234 are already enough laughingstock aberrations, reflecting far more of an impact than they actually had in WWII (as is the Ostwind--get a grip on that ridiculous Ostwind's overbearing impact on the game).  Why even have it based on WWII if you are going to skew it into the realm of far-fetched possibilities and away from the probabilities that defined the war? There were two A-bombs used in WWII (count 'em, two).  There would be two an hour in AH.  It is silliness to even consider, it is the height of frivolity and the end of ideas, hope, and personal impact, all sold wholesale to the weight of brute force, redundancy, and mere machines.

One man in a Gloster was more closely aligned with his machine's capacity, it reflects far more closely a one-to one equilibrium than one man flying an A-Bomb equipped B-29.  Think about the relative impact of each person.  One with an A-bomb, one with a pair of 7.7s.  

Just my dos centavos.

Sakai
« Last Edit: November 18, 2002, 02:31:32 PM by Sakai »
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Offline crowbaby

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2002, 06:29:06 AM »
oh, i though this thread was political comment and i was going to agree, instead i find it's about some game or other.....

Offline Innominate

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2002, 10:42:54 AM »
it's always fun to watch people complain about things that would never happen.

This is like a post pointing out how stupid if would be for the USA to invade Great Britain.

(if you're looking for political BS, go to the oclub)

Offline NOD2000

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2002, 12:53:36 PM »
Yes, I have to agree, if the 29 is modeled it will be wtihout the atomic bomb and your complaining sounds like u need to find a WWI flight sim. WWII did have 22,000lbs bombs, 30mmm cannons, 2 nukes, rocket planes, flying bombs, and all this other stuff you consider to be "unessacary in a WWII sim"

Offline frank3

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2002, 01:51:45 PM »
how fast is that 163 going?

Offline ccvi

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2002, 03:17:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by frank3
how fast is that 163 going?


420 at a climb angle of 70 degrees.

Offline Sakai

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2002, 03:50:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Innominate
it's always fun to watch people complain about things that would never happen.


A snide little man!  How quaint!

The complaint is about a mindset more than about the occurrence of any event, really which if you could intuit you might have undertsood.  Basically It's about people too stupid to understand what was postulated, people like yourself for example.  Given that, perhaps it is a logical disconnect to discuss such issues with guys like you?

Also, note that since the 163 has been identified as being "a done deal" my complaint is about specific ideas, attitudes, and perceptions that are in fact a reality.

Thanks for the attitude and the arrogance, I love it when small mineded little guys get haughty with me, really.  

Have a nice day little man!

Sakai
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Offline Fancy

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2002, 04:02:56 PM »
Well I'll give you a little support.  I agree with most of what's said, although the airing of the criticism might be a bit unnecessary.  As for the Me163, I've heard it has a MAX 18 minutes of fuel.  So it's limitations are serious and will keep it from being the next dweeb plane by far.

Offline Innominate

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2002, 07:30:09 PM »
The 163 will be free, and restricted to a small airfield next to HQ.  Thats what thier job will be, to intercept bombers trying to hit the HQ.

Don't any if you pay attention? :D

Offline Karnak

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2002, 08:40:07 PM »
I have long thought that 1943 or early 1944 was the best time for an air combat game.

That said, HTC isn't going to be adding any nukes so don't get your panties in a bind over it.

Hell, they might not even add the B-29A.
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Offline BGBMAW

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2002, 09:02:59 PM »
Quote
The 262 and A234 are already enough laughingstock aberrations, reflection far more of an impact than they actually had in WWII


LOL are u kidding your self..cause u aren t  kidding me...

Arado..tht thing is basically usless in this game now....

Me 262..how many peopl fly tht??..Very few..no one has patience for it

So your  argument about that is null


I welcome the B-29..with a High perk price

And if they did model A- bom wich the B-29 could and did carry and drop..Id be all for it...

Of Course a HUGE price would need to be put on that...200 Bomer perks or so..


Again..2 A- bombs dropping every hour is as ridicoulous as the above quote of your s Sakai

That would no thappen.....oh i guess we do see formations arados and me262 's flying all the time tho ..huh..................Lmfao

And dont say sht about  my spelling

lolo

Love BiGB

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Offline buzkill

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2002, 06:42:42 AM »
like i said in another thread...call it the ultimate perk. takes all your perk points to use.makes it the last resort weapon it really was

Offline Shiva

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2002, 09:04:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by buzkill
like i said in another thread...call it the ultimate perk. takes all your perk points to use.makes it the last resort weapon it really was


Just blowing all your perk points wouldn't be a big enough disincentive. Have it take all your perk points and disable your getting perk points for 30 days. That would keep people from using it unless it was really needed.

Offline buzkill

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2002, 09:35:18 AM »
now we're getting somewhere...also make you unable to take over bases for say .....10,000 years:p

Offline Sakai

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Stupidity of Having an A-Bomb
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2002, 10:14:58 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by BGBMAW
LOL are u kidding your self..cause u aren t  kidding me...
That would no thappen.....oh i guess we do see formations arados and me262 's flying all the time tho ..huh..................Lmfao


As noted to Sir Richard Cranium above, it's about the mindset.  

I see/hear of an Me262 virtually every day I log on, or at some time during everytime I log on (about 3-5x weekly).  So, yes I see them commonly.  There have been a few rare occasions where no one has called "262 coming in" and they don't get down to the ground to turn with me in my zeke, but I think we miss the point:

The entire mindset obviates the actuality of 99.999999999999% of WWII aerial combat.  Therefore from a strictly probablistic determination, Jets, rocket craft and A-bombs are meaningless and do not warrant inclusion.  The impact on an arena of one man relative to the prop craft which actually fought the war, is not capable of being balanced out without added "gamesmanship."  That's a losing proposition in the long run and you've proffered no counter to the argument or facts except "you don't believe it" which is nice (don't get me wrong, I'm big on experience as determinant), but somewhat flawed from a dialectic POV.  

It makes it something besides a WWII sim when anything like the Ostwind, 262, or B-29 rumbles in and ends the scene in seconds.  It is the fact that resources spent on an Arado 234 detracted from the game at all that is the evil, the festering rot on our shiny apple.  In fact, your personal opinion makes my point far more than anything else:  if they aren't flown, as you opine, why have them anyway?  Why waste the modeling resources and impact the concept and facts of WWII aerial combat with their inclusion?  Why corrupt with a non event that for all purposes didn't exist in any sense relative to the vast majority of the action?   Makes zero sense.  Your POV is actually far worse than what I see.  So we waste tons of resources modeling a B-29 that no one will fly due to perking when we could have 4 new fighters?  Oh yes, that makes sooooooo much sense now! Why didn't we see it before!

I know it's a game, but it is a WWII aerial combat game sparky.  

A-bombs are for the offspring of cousins, pony up for em if you like, but I'll stay on the side of the fence that notes that sanity, the entire war in every real sense, and my philosophical postulate are sound.

Sakai

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And don't you dare mention MY spelling.
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