No more bombers for me

[fffreeze220]

Sure u can take out gun positions. But that more a random thing than u can AIM for it.
I would like to see that damge model updatet.

[Booky]

To this day I still don't use the formations. I took them up for a few in the beginning and didn't like them so I still use my Lanc all alone. I think just maybe someday I will be bored and up a formation of Lancs and fly to 35k and maybe bomb Bish HQ, then go to Knight HQ with my 4k bombs, then go to Knight HQ and bomb that with my remaining bombs:D   Other than that, I doubt I will use formations untill some of the problems are fixed, which im sure HT has planned for 1.11.

Booky

[moot]

You're supposed to punch a hole with concentrated impacts, not spread them all over. B26s will take one 108 hit in the wingtip and 5-8/9 of them in the center fuselage respectively to die off. B17s about the same or more and lancasters the same to almost double amout.
Normally what you hit is what you damage so unless there is a small hit bubble or a large hardness setting the gunner positions should be killable like any other parts.
And if you don't want to see flies don't fly near them or within their reach; if you linger, don't be surprised, it's like wiggling red meat above a doberman's nose.

The damage bug that magically transfer one bomber's damage to the next one in the formation is an annoyance.

The bish in akdesert made a ~20kft B17 strike from A1 that was intercepted, but in the middle of 10-15+ enemy planes only the single formations were attacked, no one managed to kill any of those that stuck to the tight 5 ship box.

[Flossy]

Well I have given up bombing altogether after 4 years of almost exclusive bombing here and in AW.... at least for now, and then I will see what the next update brings.  It just wasn't worth the effort of climbing and flying to an enemy target, to have very little success in hitting it, or to be shot down not once but three times on the way there.  I've always been a pretty good gunner, too, but it seems the bombers are just so fragile against the fighters.

Recently, I've taken to flying goons..... at least I've had more success with dropping troops!

[Innominate]

Originally posted by moot

The bish in akdesert made a ~20kft B17 strike from A1 that was intercepted, but in the middle of 10-15+ enemy planes only the single formations were attacked, no one managed to kill any of those that stuck to the tight 5 ship box.

Im willing that this strike did next to no damage.

I remember a lanc strike not too long ago, we had a dozen lanc formations, with escort fighters and flew over an enemy field.  We carpetbombed the whole field, and when we left, the radar was out, fuel was at 100, and nothing else was hurt.

[Pollock]

I havent flown a bomber since the bombsight calibration thing went into effect.  Not because of its difficulty i just havnt made time to assign the buttons on my saitek. Maybe this weekend who knows.

I do have to say something has to change soon.  The one thing that bugs me is the kamakaze, 300ft, divebombing, furballing bombers that play the game.  I guess that if the flight model allows people who like to game will exploit it.

My guess is the new arena forthcoming will probably be more what I am looking for (and then some).  I am hoping that it will bring back my enjoyment levels of about 1.5 years ago.  Lately the onetime simulation is now completely a gamey game gamer, quake festival.  Maybe the influx of a crapload of newbies and experienced gamers from Air Warrior and FA, etc. have warrented it.

Please note that this is not a bash on All newbies and AW refugees.  I am sure alot of them share my opinion on what they want out of there 15 bucks per month is more of a sim with a purpose.  Thats is why I am holding hope on the new Mission arena.

Bombers ? Aww crap I didnt mean to hijack the thread sorry....

[Ripsnort]

Using bombers in AH is a no no as Mickeys post reports.  Lazs *did* get his way after all.

[Revvin]

It's an annoying bug that will hopefully be fixed in the next version of perhaps bombers wil lgo the same way they are in WB and be 2nd class citizens seems bombers fall very easily these days and don't have the defensive firepower they had before.

I've all but stopped playing AH except for squad nights and events. The MA quake mentality has become extremely tiresome and myself and my squad have cut our flying hours right down to just squad nights while we wait for the mission arena.

Having said then when we do fly we still enjoy ourselves and regularly put up long range missions to strike strat targets despite the futility of it. The last few weeks have seen some great fun flying pretty realistic looking missions with B17's or Lanc's escorted by Allied planes and strangely we often get attacked by only Axis fighters in recent weeks apart from the odd P51 or La7 which serves to increase the immersion a little more. If there are any bombers jocks on Sunday around 8PM GMT we will be flying again for Bishops.

[Wlfgng]

so how about just flying a single bomber until the 'bug' is fixed?

or were the bombers 'neutered' when the formations were implemented ?

(I dunno because I rarely, if ever, fly them)

[Innominate]

Originally posted by Pollock
I do have to say something has to change soon.  The one thing that bugs me is the kamakaze, 300ft, divebombing, furballing bombers that play the game.  I guess that if the flight model allows people who like to game will exploit it.

This would decrease drasticly if it wasn't by far the fastest, most effective way to fly a bomber.

The choice between divebombing, and a 50/50 chance of hitting is no choice at all.

[lazs2]

rip... I allways get my way..  I am beloved by all.  
lazs

[Turbot]

It is true the higher you go the more difficult it is to be accurate.  However the Bombsight does work - even from over 30k alt.  

I note these points:

It is a hell of a time commitment to fly a bomber successfully.  Maybe the time commitment/enjoyment ratio is getting upside down here, even for the experienced player.

Bombers have always been a place where new players start out and learn to fly.  In this respect HTC is trying what has never been done.  Bombers are no longer entry level, but an advanced level of play.  Adding to new player frustration level can't be a good thing.

There seem to be a few bugs in the code:

The formations do seem to transfer damage - for example the same guns die at same time on all three planes.  

When gunning from a formation the aim just doesn't seem right.   I find I am many times more accurate gunning from a single bomber.

[Wlfgng]

does gun convergence come into play on formations of bombers ?

[Midnight]

Originally posted by moose
Such investigative journalism.

Don't take what I said the wrong way, Moose.

My comment was totally sarcastic to say the least. BOmber formations are a great addition to this game, as is the site calibration routine.

However, like many other new introductions to this game, HTC has a great deal of work to get it fine tuned.

1. Killing multiple bombers (making them explode) on one fighter pass should be an extreme rare occurance. The current situational norm is that a single cannon-armed fighter can kill or severely damage an entire formation of heavy bombers within 15 seconds. HTC knows this, and hopefully is working on a solution.

2. When the lead bomber is shot down by loosing a wing, there is a HUGE lag warp effect on the drones and where they end up once the pilot finally bails out. Rather than the remaining bombers maintaining level flight, they start to dive with the wreckage of the leader and then warp back to a different position. HTC knows this, and hopefully is working on a solution.

3. The current bombsite has no aeronautical or mathmatical information available. A major improvement could be made if HTC added a few items...
   A. Air speed indicator
   B. Bombsite angle (looking straight down could be 0 degrees, and anything forward view could be + degrees. (I.e. +10, +15, +45, etc.)
By adding info to the bombsite, the experiened bomber pilot would be able to "guestimate" the calibration based on his bomber's speed, altitude, bombsite angle and target altitude.

4. As stated by HTC, targets for bombers will become cities and factories that will become more populated with killable targets. Right now, pin-point bombing is nearly impossible, requiring larger salvos to get target hits. This results in a lot more wasted bombs hitting empty space. Hopefully we will see the larger target areas for 1.11.

5. As requested by many, it would be nice if HTC added a formation spread command (.spread xxx) so the pilot could make his bombers spread out slightly before dropping bombs, allowing greater area of coverage.


And I stand by my sarcastic remark if HTC doesn't make any changes. Last tour, the only plane I shot down more than the P-51D was the B-17G with the spitIX in a distant third. <<-- how could a P-51D (my main ride) be able to kill so many bombers? Answer: They are too easy to kill and make a good score padding device.

[Wlfgng]

I thought I saw posted somewhere that you could change which aircraft you were sitting in without bailing out of the first..
I.E.
one could change to the 'next' bomber without having that incredible lag between planes that lets fighters blast you to bits before you can reorient.

??