Ju88

[gatt]

Duck,
you know I fly Axis and love Axis aircraft. It is not a matter of how good the Ju88A4 is, it is a matter of arena/scenarios balancing. IMHO, with the A6M5b the arena is perhaps more complete (and fun to fly in) but more unbalanced as well. The Zeke and the Ju88 are sitting ducks. If HTC will extend the plane set back to 1940-42, then it is ok. If they'll stick with the 1943-45 air war, IMHO, those two a/c are pretty useless ... like the Bf109F-4 and Macchi C.202 "Folgore".  

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 07-21-2000).]

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Toad:

Fer pete's sake, you've got a HUGE staff of 6 people and this thing is sneaking up on being pay for play for what? 5 or 6 months?

Funny how they choose those famous US birds to be modelled first and then those perhaps most used LW planes, which are not necessarily that competive...

Wheres P-40 and other equivelant less performing planes?

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Duckwing6:

Take that JU88 Golly-geenit, just think about all the possible variants ! The JU88S, night fighters, Torpedo bombers, etc, etc, etc,.. this was one of the most versatile aircraft of the war just aknowledge that fact.

Maybe if we shut up, they might give us couple versatiles of Ju-88 for 1.05...

[Cobra]

 

Originally posted by Fishu:
Sure thing, if someone gives me a coder and couple artists.

Give??  Give???.....Oh no friend....pay for!

I'm sure thats what HT did when forming this company......put this ad in the paper...Looking for experienced coder and artist to donate and give their time to me free of charge.....

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
Give??  Give???.....Oh no friend....pay for!

I'm sure thats what HT did when forming this company......put this ad in the paper...Looking for experienced coder and artist to donate and give their time to me free of charge.....

But sir... you told me to do the game, that means you should be my sponsor and should take care of the crew.

[Karnak]

Let us look at the Ju88 and Lancaster a bit.


The Lancaster

Lancaster had the following wartime versions:

Lancaster MkI
Lancaster MkI Special
Lancaster MkII
Lancaster MkIII

The Lancaster MkI is powered by four Merlin engines.  Has an internal bombload of about 18,000lbs or 1 12,000lb bomb.  It is defended by 8 .303 Brownings, 2 in the nose, 2 in the dorsal and 4 in the tail.  If it is a early MkI it will have an additional 2 in a belly turret for a total of 10.  Belly turret would be controled remotely by the dorsal gunner.  Various radar packages were mounted on the MkI throughout WWII.

Lancaster MkI Special is a MkI that has been modified to carry the "bouncing" bomb or a single 22,000lb bomb.  It is defended by 4 to 8 .303s.  Less than 100 were built.  I doubt HTC is going to model this one as a 22,000lb bomb might be too effective at having one bomber sneak attack a base and shut it down instantly.

Lancaster MkII was designed to use Centaur radial engines.  This was designed in case the supply of Merlins proved to be inadequate.  In the actual event, the US began to produce Merlins and the anticipated supply problem did not materialize.  The MkII is in all other ways similar to the 8 gun MkI.  About 500 MkIIs were built.

The Lancaster MkIII was built using US Packard built Merlins and, I believe, was built in Canada.  It is otherwise similar to the 8 gun MkI.

These are all heavy bombers useful only in that role.  The MkI Special being the most divergent of the lot.  The MkI Special was used to destroy REALLY hardened targets such as U-Boat pens.  As we can see, the 1945 Lancaster is esentially the same as the 1942 Lancaster.


The Ju88

The Ju88 is not something that I am an expert on, but I do know that it served in many roles and was one of the most successful aircraft of the war.  I can't list out the versions like I did with the Lanc, but lets look at some of its roles.  Medium bomber.  Dive bomber.  Anti-shipping.  Zerstorer.  Nightfighter.

The Ju88 served as a medium bomber throughout the war.  The A-4 version that we are getting first was a medium bomber.

The Ju88 was equipped to be used as a dive bomber.  It did not do steep dives like the Ju87, Val or Dauntless, but it could dive bombe.  The Ju88A-4 was capable of this role.

Anti-shipping was also something that the Ju88 was used for.  The A-4 version was capable of dropping torpedoes (don't you love versatility?).  Of course we'll need ships before this is useful.

Later in the war, as Germany's situation worsened, the Ju88 was pressed into service as a Zerstorer.  Unfortunately, while it was tough and carried a heavy punch, the American fighters could easily shoot it down.  This was probably its least successful role.  The A-4 is obviously not a Zerstorer, but the option is there for the future.  All the guys complaining about the B-26 being used as a fighter are gonna hate this one.

The Ju88 served quite successfully as a cannon and radar equipped nightfighter, shooting down many British bombers.  Once again, this is an option for the future that the anti-bombers-being-used-as-fighters-guys will hate.

With all of these roles available, HTC will be able to take the design and give many versions of it.  It will have many roles availble eventually.  The B-17 and Lancaster will always just be heavy bombers.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 07-21-2000).]

[Kieren]

Fishu-

The point is, you always come in and complain about what is wrong, you never mention what is right. You go on about an American bias- well, yeah, there probably is. There happens to be a lot more information printed and living examples of American and British aircraft left. This is made in America. What would you expect?

This is where people come to you and say "Make your own sim, if you have the depth of wisdom everyone else seems to lack. Make it 'historically accurate' with all the performance you know it should have". You have every bit the opportunity as anyone else that ventures into the business. No one owes it to you to be your sponsor- you owe it to yourself to develop something (concept, programming, etc) that investors will want to support.

Still, this isn't what bothers me. It is the anti-American snide remarks you continuously make. I can understand you being upset about the disparity in plane representation for the respective countries. What I don't understand is why you have such obviously strong anti-American feelings. Is there more to American-Finnish history than I know?

[Nath-BDP]

I don't notice any "anti-American" comments in his posts, apart from the bias against German a/c.

Go look at Fishu's page dedicated to the B17...

[Kieren]

Not just this thread, I am talking accumulated over time. Heck maybe it's just me hearing the "American newbies can't stand to lose" "American this" "American that"... just a recurrent thread is all. Maybe I have a thing against Finns?  

[Karnak]

You'd better not have something against Finns.  

FINLAND!!!!  


On a more serious note, did my posting about the Ju88 and Lancaster make any sense?

Sisu
-Karnak

[Azrael]

I really wonder how this thread went into something that looks like a lot of people are getting something into their throat.

Fact is: No Axis bomber will ever fulfill the heavy bomber role like the B-17 does. The axis didn't have the materials to build a fleet of four-engined, supercharged heavy bombers. Also, the axis never had heavy bombers that could carry the load of a Lanc. They never needed it IRL or scrapped the development early (the B-17 was developed in mid 30's, at the same time the german "Ural Bomber" project, intended on developing a heavy long range bomber, came to an end when General Wever was killed in a plane crash.

Otoh, the allies had few planes that were as versatile as the Ju 88 - of course, this versatility is also a drawback, jack of all trades, master of none. But with the introduction of the Ju 88 HTC has the option to introduce a good medium/dive/torpedo bomber, and a heavy night fighter and heavy Zerstörer.

The He 177, nice to have, would just be another heavy bomber that was crippled by the attempts to add dive bomber capabilities into the design. As we all know, this was a historic failure. The only successfull use of the He 177 are night attacks on England (London), where the He 177's climbed to high alt over the north sea and went into a swallow dive towards their targets to pick up speed and evade the excellent english night cover system.

Az
381st BG (H)
   

[Kieren]

Karnak-

Made perfect sense to me. I feel the same way.  


Azrael-

You're right too. I responded to something that most others have wisely ignored. Fishu will make the remarks regardless, so no point was served.

Your evaluation of the bomber situation in AH is pretty good, IMHO. I do think Germany could have developed a competitive bomber, even as late as 1942, but they decided the interruption in production was not worthwhile (or possible later on). Tragic mistake, as Russia moved its factories beyond the Urals and Allied production was beyond most bombing attempts.

The He177 on paper was a great idea, and in the perfect world of AH would be good. Still, if I wanted to survive a raid I would take the B-17 instead of the He177 every time.

[Toad]

So now Fish's big complaint is:

Quote:

"Funny how they choose those famous US birds to be modelled first and then those perhaps most used LW planes, which are not necessarily that competive..."

So to do it right, they should have followed a strict time line? Started with the LW in Spain and the Japanese in China? Then built up the planeset over the next few years till we got to 1945? Wow, that would have gotten the game off to a rousing start. The mass market would go nuts for this. So many people have pictures of Ratas and Claudes hanging on their walls and silk-screened on their T-shirts.

We'd probably have ten times the players that we do now. We might even be up to the Battle of Britain planeset next year...maybe.

Not only are you a master programmer and strategic thinker, you are one heck of a marketing guy too, Fish. Not.


quote:
---------------------------------------------Originally posted by Cobra:
Give?? Give???.....Oh no friend....pay for!
I'm sure thats what HT did when forming this company......put this ad in the paper...Looking for experienced coder and artist to donate and give their time to me free of charge.....
--------------------------------------------

Cobra, don't forget that Fishu is NOT a paying customer. HTC hasn't met his high standards for quality yet. Of course, that hasn't kept him from playing, by his own admission, under several various aliases in the "two-week free trial mode" <cough, FRAUD, cough> and keeping the complaints coming. Now you want him <cough, FREELOADER, cough> to actually pay someone to put his brilliant, flawless gameplay and flight models into computer code?

It's damn easy to sit on the sidelines and squeak. But I suspect he'd get a bit more respect down in Grapevine if he actually was a paying customer.

[SpyHawk]

Man, anybody else think Pyro's in a bad mood today? Switch to decaf bro.

Anyways. I am glad we are getting a Ju-88. Reason? Once you finish the A-4 it will be fairly easy to crank out a destroyer and torpedoe plane. All I ask is we get all the options  

(Inlcluding my two fish!)

[This message has been edited by SpyHawk (edited 07-21-2000).]

[JimBear]

And here I was just dreaming along of the possibilities of night time Lancaster raids on Country "X"s HQ/City  with determined defenders in their Richards hunting down the elusive tommies. Ohh well  I be so stoopid for being patient... I want it NOW, I want it YESTERDAY......