Author Topic: For Funked and his SubieDoo (Read 1344 times)

Wlfgng · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2002, 04:05:50 PM »

Amen.

I was lucky enough to drive a street legal pace car (cart pace car) with over 500 hp.. all I can say is woah....

nutting even comes close IMO

'specially not rice burners

yeah it seems fast to you younguns but then again, like Lazs, I'll bet you've never driven a real muscle car..

I defer to Lazs cuz he's prolly forgotten more than I'll ever know about performance vehicles

funkedup · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2002, 03:57:08 AM »

I can't believe you guys actually waited through the download of that huge pic.

Lazs, all that torque and noise is nice, but what counts is who gets the power down the ground and who gets to the finish line first. Nothing more hilarious than beating a big snorty Detroit Smallnoodlecompensationmobile with a cute little station wagon.

lazs2 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2002, 10:14:17 AM »

funked I agree... but... A 12.91 station wagon is not uncommon in drag racing nor ... is a 12 sec wrx. The ls1 won't beat a lot of modified cars but... it will beat stock wrx. I can certainly modify an ls1 to beat the wrx in the video. the daisy chain of back slapping on that newsgroup was whistling in the dark imo (they really do seem like a bunch of know nothing dufuses)... they would all be in for a huge helping of crow if they seen the results of a modified ls1 against said station wagon. I had a 55 nomad 20 years ago that would beat that subie. does that make the subie guy a small noodle wannabe? I mean... to be beat in a gee wizz turbo techno mobile by a carburated old station wagon. How bout a '69 el camino with a plastic Mary on the dash and dingle balls? Would that be funny?

as for the four wheel drive... you will reach a point of diminishing returns... my guess is around 10 sec. If you are extremely well engineered and have tons of money. Why aren't all the fuel rails 4 wheel drive? Remember the "hurst hairy olds" (there were also several copies) they put two olds engines in a 67 442 blown on fuel smoked all four tires all the way down... exhibition car hard to drive (all the clones and it crashed a lot)... and... relatively slow. better to have a lighter drive train and good weight transfer... been proven over and over. plus.... look up what it will cost you if you scatter that trannie/transfer case.

do not scoff at torque... torque is what most people think is horsepower in their car.. try punching the gas at 2,000 rpm in your subie in top gear.... try the same in my 471. A broad torque band is the most useful... you can lose some handling advantage with a turbo that comes on strong. a broad powerband is easier to drive well... 550 ft lbs of torque at 3600 rpm is extremely useful for 99% of the drivers in the world. Only extremely light cars are the exception. Torque that doesn't vary much from 500 ft lbs from 3000 to 6000 rpm is very easy to work with in 99% of the situations you will encounter.

turbos make the most hp... this is debatable but close enough... superchargers make the broadest powerband and most useable power... this is not debatable. turbos are a lazy cheapo(for manurfactures) way out. you don't get something for nothing tho.. you sacrafice powerband and drivability... turbos are light years from wher they started... you don't feel "turbo lag" so much now... but it's there. and it can cause problems. the trend is toward superchargers for good reason.

basicly... I can drive a subie turbo around with you as a passenger and have my foot to the floor 90% of the time and you will think you are in a kia so far as power goes... you can't do that with my 471. Powerband 101. I know you know this but I was trying to simplify for some of the others. I am probly not explaining very well.
lazs
lazs

crowMAW · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2002, 10:55:16 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
even funked's station wagon is is running better than older race cars used to.

Well, lets say some race cars...I don't think Funk's wagon will beat my old Citation FF (that's Formula Ford not Chevy) around any of the paved road courses I've been on unless he is a very talented driver (and there are some out there). But you are right that modern cars have really improved recently...Z06 and Modena come to mind.

Quote

gman... if you have a 99 SS that runs in the 10's with nothing but a vortech then you have the fastest one in existance... I know of 2 impala SS that have superchargers and beefed 700R trannies with low gears and they run low 12's high 11's with drag radials [/B]

I think Gman is talking about a Z28 SS...which out of the box is a LS1 325hp 3400lb car. The Impala SS was an LT1 260hp 4000lb car. The Z has a definite weight advantage and modding it starts with a higher performing stock base.

I've seen average drivers pull 13.5-13.8 sec 1/4 in a stock LS1 F-body. I haven't seen a good driver run a stock one, but I'd bet 13 flats are possible. And I have seen a WS6 with a 125 wet shot pull an 11.6 on Nittos. I believe the Vortech adds about 150hp to stock...is that right Gman?

Quote

Heck.... I bet most of you never even drove a stock ford lightning truck....[/B]

Yeah, they are hella quick...if you can get the light rear end to hook up. I almost bought one as my daily driver and to pull my sailplane, but mid-life hormones took over and it was time for a roadster.

Quote

most of the guys with imports who talk about how "fast" their cars are have never ridden in a car that sets you back in the seat while the intake sucks in 1000 cfm and the 10'' tires scream like banshees with their butt on fire. Untill youve felt 600 ft lbs of torque or more at 4k... you probly haven't gotten enough perspective to get into the discussion.
[/B]

Butt dyno's are very inaccurate. Torque feels good. But low weight and high rpm with good gears can be faster. Just ask the 'Stang GT owner who I suprised in my torquless 153ft/lb 9000rpm S2000 last night.

crowMAW · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2002, 11:10:57 AM »

Now before you guys think I'm some kind of ricer...this is the kind of racing I normally do:

One run (9.5megs)

lazs2 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2002, 12:39:21 PM »

crow...

very neat video I haven't autocrossed in years except at a healey meet lately... us v8 guys were getting beat by a highly modified 4 with autocross suspension and race only tires (it was not a street legal car and came in on a trailer.. I drove the 150 miles there)...on the very short track, we couldn't use any of the power we had. The timed speed courses were a different story.

we are talking about the same things.. lest you think that muscle cars/g machines are all I drive.... I have my healey with it's 331 mouse motor... it is purposely detorqued but... as I said.. torque is not as important as hp in very light cars. they are easy to keep in the powerband... I have 11.5 to 1 and a cam with a lot of duration along with a very agressiv single plane manifold with 750 double pumper... doesn't make power till 3,000-7000 rpm.. but for most people in street heavy cars.... torque is the answer.

getting a z28 ss with nothing but a vortech into the 10's would be next to impossible...

I watch vettes and vipers and even ls1's run laps at sears point that are faster than the old FF ones.. I don't know how the wrx would do..

but... as i said... nothin is free. My el camino had to be built.. I had to make it. it also get's about the same milage as an suv even with the 6 speed... 8-15 maybe 16 if you can drive sensibly but no one can drive it sensibly... even beetle would go lawless in the damn thing. This translates into me spending about 20 bucks more for gas if I drive to vegas from northern CA. I can live with that.

anyhow.... it's all fun and everyone should get interested in automotive sports... It simply is wrong to generalize when if comes to car types. anything can be made to beat anything and everything you do is a comprimise. My personality is loud.... I like to have people grin and thumbs up me when they see my cars... I like being able to find em in the parking lot and I like to be able to say I built em and to benchrace with other people who have built cars.... some don't have the time or care about that and would just as soon buy whatever they feel (or some magazine feels) is the hot ticket this year. That's ok too.
lazs

funkedup · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2002, 03:24:48 PM »

Lazs about powerband, fortunately they put this lever in the car that moves these little gears around and does this magic thing called torque multiplication.

Montezuma · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2002, 03:26:41 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by texace
A few weeks ago, we had a student who has just bought a brand new Mustang 5.0.

No such thing, pull your head out.

funkedup · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2002, 03:31:15 PM »

PS 4WD is banned in most forms of road and oval racing.
Same for turbos.
Guess why?

lazs2 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2002, 07:02:43 PM »

yep there are different postitions that do different stuff tho and it's all so confusing... ya know that ya need at least 6 of those positions plus the one that makes the car go backwords tho right?
lazs

J_A_B · « **Reply #25 on:** November 23, 2002, 10:25:10 PM »

Heh heh funked, your car gets good performance on a small engine, but there's a tradeoff.

My BACK seat has more legroom than your car's FRONT seats

Heck, despite having a wagon, in order to have more cargo space than me you need to sacrifice your back seat.....must be an awfully small "wagon". You give up all that space and comfort for only about 2 seconds in the quartermile in stock condition.

You drive a sardine can. A fast sardine can, but a can nonetheless. AWD is nice, but you can't predict the future and I'd rather have the best possible chance of surviving an accident. Plus I can strech out as much as I like

J_A_B

funkedup · « **Reply #26 on:** November 24, 2002, 01:05:54 AM »

Actually I don't have the wagon, but the sedan. I can carry 4 adults + luggage which is all I need.
I've got plenty of legroom up front. I actually have the seat almost all the way forward and I'm 6'3".
No reason for a larger vehicle. It's actually a little large for my taste as it is. If I wanted to stretch I would get out and walk.
As far as accidents, I'd like to have the best chance of avoiding them. A nimble car with rally-bred handling gives me a lot better chance than some slothlike American gas hog.

And even if I do have an accident, the Impreza is quite sturdy.
So NEENER!!!

texace · « **Reply #27 on:** November 24, 2002, 01:21:38 AM »

Shoulda been more specific. His PARENTS bought the Mustang...

lazs2 · « **Reply #28 on:** November 24, 2002, 10:35:27 AM »

So his parents are the ones with small peni? 5.0... 4.6 never did understand all that metric stuff myself.

I had a 90 mustang.... x highway patrol car with 3.55 posi and bilsteins and a couple of little things I added... I had a hard time selling it this year... everyone loved it untill they drove it.. they were afraid that their kid would drive it and kill himself.. It ran in the 13's with the ac on. nice enough car. the guy who bought it was 26... 2 weeks after he bought it he lost it in second gear and totaled it.

Funked... so how did the $50 75 horsepower (you would need that much horsepower to added to lose a full sec in the quarter) add on work out? or are you on the $1000 world record mod?

truth is... I like the idea of a well sorted out sleeper. I also realize that you don't get something for nothing... I also realize that if you drive in snow or slippery surfaces then you probly need 4 wheel drive. A wrx will run 14.6 in the quarter which is not bad at all. It is not a world beater time by any stretch of the imagination tho and there are dozens of new cars that will beat that.. not many that will do it for the price tho. I doubt that even one of the bedwetters on that subie newsgroup could make their car get into the 12's tho. I bet the guy who did doesn't sound as ignorant and condencending as them either.
lazs

Staga · « **Reply #29 on:** November 24, 2002, 07:01:49 PM »

10-15 years ago my friend built old (65-66) Chevy Belair, it had a straight six but he bought a pretty powerfull 350cid from a tuned '57 Chevy and dropped that one in.
He sold that car later and when buyer came It was rainy day. Kid wanted to drive that car but my friend told him to sit in the right seat, he wouldn't let any noob drive that one as long as he was the owner.
10 mins later in a test drive that kid was yelling "this is mine, this is mine !!!".

Friend's next project was a Aspen with slant-six and he was going to drop a 383 with TF727 in it but some old fart wanted to buy the car in its original condition

btw here in Helsinki is a Chevrolet Corvair with 455cid (From Olds IIRC), it was built in U.S in some speed shop in seventies but some nut-case found it from U.S and shipped it to Finland. I'm just wondering what would Mr Nader think about that car...