Ack huggers

[eddiek]

I know a lot of you are gonna flame me on this one, but I just wanted to get this off my chest and maybe put an idea forth that might resolve the issue.
It seems to me that lately a lot more pilots are choosing to run to their ack if they do not have a clear advantage over their opponent.  While often referred to as "choosing discretion over valor", and I can see no harm in it when a pilot is facing multiple bogies.  But, IMHO, it takes away from the game when a pilot is one on one with a single bogey and he runs to the ack instead of trying to work his way out of the  situation.  I have seen Torque and Citabria and others turn and fight and work their way back into the fight, and that is one thing I admire about those pilots.  They never give up the fight, and choose the courageous route  rather than let the acks take care of them.  This sim is supposed to be about ACM, and while some may consider running from the enemy to be prudent behavior, it has it's time and place.  Extending from a disadvantageous situation is one thing, and is a wise maneuver if that is what is needed to save your skin.  But hiding in the ack is, IMHO, cowardice plain and simple.
My proposed solution is this:  Take away the credit for kill when your pursuer gets killed by the acks.  Give the credit to the AA, not the pilot.  Giving credit to the fleeing pilot when he basically gave up on the fight only rewards such tactics.
I know what most of you will say:  "eddiek, no one forces you to chase them down into the ack."
That is true.  I am admittedly a very aggressive pilot, many times to my misfortune.  But it is totally disheartening to work a fight, play all your cards in such a way that you finally get the upper hand, and then the con runs to his ack, and then the ack gets you and the other guy gets credit for a kill in a fight he actually lost.
This is the BEST sim on the market, IMO, and I plan on being here a long time.
I guess I just wanted to vent my feelings here, and get this off my chest.  I know there is going to be opposing views, and I will likely get flamed, but hey, friction leads to progress, and maybe something good will come of this.
Now I just need HTC to put my P-47M in the arena, and with it's 4400 ft/min climb rate and 487 knot top speed, I will be totally happy.

[Swager]

I am thinking on changing my online name to Ackhug!!

The best part is when an opponent follows you into ack, they get shot down, and you get the kill!  That is the best!

I run to ack even when I have an advantage!  Because my ACM stinks!  Just one of the perks of the game.

[eddiek]

Like you said, one of the perks of the game!  
As I am not one to run from a fight (might try to extend a bit and come back and try again), I can honestly say that I have rarely run to the ack to save my skin in 6 tours of duty.  Foolish?  Maybe.  But my kill tally went up each tour as I learned how to turn the tables on my opponent(s).  Not so this TOD.....seems to be more of the ack hugging than ever these days.  
Thanks for the input, Swager.  

[Wardog]

I have no problem in this area. Ask anyone,i will chase anyone into ack and usually get the kill. Also get my rad hit but i think its worth it. Others dont like to follow into ack.

Dog out..

[Westy]

 They can't stay in the ack forever!    So climb above, horde some E and when they make a mistake by getting away from "mutha" ack oo much dive on thier butts and nail em. Course I like nothing more than zipping thru the ack at high speed and busting them too. More times than not the ack doesn't get me  

  -Westy

[BigJim]

Heheh Eddiek you are aggressive alright, last night you tried multiple head-on's with me and my wingman in your P-47, we got you but it was a hell of a fight and both of us were pinged badly <salute>

BigJim

[Revvin]

LOL so ack hugging is dweebish and making constant HO's is not?  

The ack bubble is not that big, I usually climb and wait for them to start drifting to the fringes of the ack cover then dive in and give them a blast.

[Citabria]

eddiek next time I see you on I'll show you how to clear a field of ack with a fighter by straffing without taking any damage  

its also possible to dive right through "the lane" down the middle of a field and nail a cowardly landing ack hugger even w all acks up  

I think the most fun I had doing this was with an a6m5 playing "clownfish in the anenome" so i straffed all his acks then killed him  

[Fariz]

Kill should not be credited to those who hide in acks, that is what I agree with.

From the other hand telling that one way of playing is "right" and other is "wrong" is not good. Some people play this game as an arkade, kill as many as they can in shortest time and do not bother about getting home. Other play for survival, and they try to get home after each sorties. Third play for scores, and etc. All ways of playing shall be respected in my opinion.

Fariz

[Nath-BDP]

the best feeling in the game is killing an ack hugger that decides to turn around and fight

[eddiek]

Anytime, you want to teach me ANYTHING Citabria, I am ready!  <S>!  
And Fariz, I agree with you......to each his own, fly the way you want.  But I disagree with the credit being given for what amounts to tucking your tail between your legs and running.  But!  This is only MY opinion, nothing more.    
And revvin, for what it's worth, I had NO room for manuevers in the engagement BigJim is referring to.........there were 4 of them and 1 of me.......there IS a time and place to HO!  Last resort before dying!  Otherwise, I try to manuever to saddle up on their 6.......but with 4 of them, who do I saddle up on?  

[This message has been edited by eddiek (edited 07-22-2000).]

[eskimo]

I know this post was regaurding co-alt 1 v. 1 ack hugging, but;
I have been accused of ack hugging in situations where I have faced 3, 4, and even 5 high cons VS. myself.  When most of the cons are in faster ships, what is one to do?  You cannot expect 1 low alt/energy opponent to take on multiple high cons, or try to escape with everyone watching just him.  Not everyone wants to be vulch bait.  Plane type also has a lot to do with it, a slower plane has few options.  
For me, ack hugging in this situation is acceptable.  
For some, their main goal may be survival at any cost.  I can respect this because it is the one truly realistic choice that we all would make in a real life situation.  I have many freinds that enjoy the survival at any cost approach.  Heck, I think it would be fun to spend one tour in the "Never Die / Survival at any Cost" mode".
For others, they have to go to work in 15 minutes and all that they care about is mixing it up before they log off, regaurdless of the outcome.  That's perfectly cool too.  It's just a game, and we are all here to have fun.  In fact, as soon as the next tour, I may turn into "Suicide-Jabo, Head-On-Anything, Enter-Any-Fight-No-Matter-what-the-Odds-Eskimo"

My point is; don't let your panties get all bunched-up because someone else has a different attitude about what this game is all about.  To each thier own.  Decide to engage, or not, and then let it go.

eskimo

[Pongo]

 

Originally posted by Citabria:
eddiek next time I see you on I'll show you how to clear a field of ack with a fighter by straffing without taking any damage  

its also possible to dive right through "the lane" down the middle of a field and nail a cowardly landing ack hugger even w all acks up  

I think the most fun I had doing this was with an a6m5 playing "clownfish in the anenome" so i straffed all his acks then killed him  

It can also be fun to hug the ack against long odds and duck out for a quick kill.
But Cit and Wardog are right..there are some guys that it is just not safe to ack hug from...

[Dago]

Here's what I suggest Eddie, next time you think a con is going to run to ack rather than try to fight you at a disadvantage, why dont you get real low, get real slow and let him have the advantage?  Maybe he wont run for the ack then.

I dont mind if someone runs for the ack from me when I am in a superior E position, I accept that he has made a prudent decision.

I dont expect him to try and fight me and just be an easy target.  In any fight, you use whatever tools are available to win or at least survive.  That is what an ack hugger does. And it's smart flying.  

Granted, there are some really good sticks out there that can enter a fight with less E and quickly turn it around, but those are few and far between.

The best in the game play it by using their heads.  It may not seem all macho, but it is smarter. Dont expect anyone to let themselves be killed, or belittle them if they dont.

Dago

[Yosus]

I've run before, and I have on occassion used ack for safety  , does that make me an ack-hugger?? ... but wait, what is wrong with this thread?

People pay for this game ... so they are entitled to play it any damn way they want!

Everyone plays to their own rules and to satisfy various and very individual wants/needs. Some of these methods we might agree with, and some we might find questionable ...

If anyone would like to pay for the upkeep of my AH account, I'll play a specific way, your way, once a week  .

It's up to ourselves, what we choose to react to and what to ignore, that will make the game for you ... it really is a waste of time belly-aching about how other people should fly, from any point of view  .

For the record ... I fly as 'realistically' as I know how  .

Cheers
Yosus

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“One day, flight simulation will be so realistic, that you’ll need to wear brown corduroy … “
Phoenix Squadron.