Gaming the game... a new episode

[JENG]

Tonight knightcountry was the victim of a highalt run by 5 buffs. I was surprised to see buffs so high... cause I figured Pyro had fixed the laseraccurate bombsight at high altitudes. Aparently not so... these bish buffs where at 33K and totaly took down our HQ.

I believe pyro should adress the accuracy of the bombsight. It may have been a lucky hit... but come on... 33K only 5 buffs and still take down the HQ? Unbelievable yet true.

I know this has been discussed alot before ver 1.2 when it was all to common for dweebs to climb to 35+K to buff... but I thought it was addressed in version 1.2 Aparently not.

To Jolly and the others who made the run... isn't it more fun when you organise a 10 buff sortie with escorts at 25 K then climbing to 33K and be invulnerable? I made a stupid move and got shot down... but bigjoe, ash, udie, etc spend alot of time trying to climb above you but simply couldn't. Ask Caveman bout some buffruns he organised they are alot of fun... and are not at 33K.

To all the other flyers who were on at the time... sorry for losing my temper on open channel... I just flared up and shouldn't have... MEA CULPA.

BEE out

[Citabria]

HQ is a big fat target

[Beefcake]

Um, Bee no offense, but a B17 at 33k SHOULD be able to hit HQ. HQ is the BIGGEST building in the game, and I'm sure you can see it from 33k. Now, if you said they had hit acks at 33k then I would agree, but however hitting HQ is alot easier, due to its massive size.

[Sharky]

Hi all,

I've thought of the way bombing is handled in flight sims on numerious occasions, and have yet to come up with an idea that really works.

If you make it virtually impossible for a buff to hit a pin point object through the Norden, then buffs are required to get large groups together to be effective.  While this is historically accurate, it's not much fun for the buffs as it is not very often to get a bunch together for a sortie on a whim.

But if they do have pinpoint accuracy especially from an altitude where they can't be intercepted then, then they can level most of the arena unchallenged.

I think that to keep buffers in the game, (and I think we all want them here with us) they have to be able to do a good amount of damage on their own, this requires that the Nordon be fairly accurate or they have to waste a whole bomb load to kill a single ack or hanger (not much fun for the guy driving the buff)  But at the same time they have to be somewhat vulnerable to attack.

This leads me to a question.  What is the service ceiling of a fully loaded B-17?  It seems to me that it should be impossible for a B-17 loaded with gas and bombs could get to 30k and above.  Now I don't know much about bombers and maybe they can.  If so then there accuracy needs to be SEVERLY degraded at that altitude.

I really like having the dedicated bomber pilots in the game, in fact I look foward to the time when people start forming some seriously historical bomber squads and groups in here. (they're going to need good escort  )  But they need to be challenged to the same degree as everyone when it comes to being able to fly a succesful sortie.

Thanks for listening,
Sharky

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Playboy Leader
307th FS/31st FG
You can run but ya just die tired

[-towd_]

ditto

[cokerr]

OK, I don't post very often, but I was the 6th bomber in the group. I got shot down at 27k by a Spit diving from 30k.
iN THE INFAMOUS WORDS OF "BUBBA"
"That ain't right"
coker

[milnko]

Seems to me that we are missing something VERY Important in this game.......

88mm FLAK guns

I am currently reading "The Lucky Bastard Club" by Eugene Fletcher, a WW2 Bomber pilot, and throughout the whole book he relates how they decide if a target was easy or tough by how much flak surrounded it.
A great read to be sure.

Complexes like HQ and the city/factories should have a wall of 88's surrounding em.
Until they give us high-alt flak, living with  +33,000 foot bombers is gonna be the way it is, even if ya lower bombsight accuracy.

 


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<< MILENKO >>
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage

[Karnak]

My copy of Jane's Fighting Aircraft of WWII lists the following for the B-17:

PERFORMANCE.-Maximum speed 295 m.p.h (472 km.h) at 25,000 ft. (7,625 m.), climb to 25,000 ft. (7,625 m.) 41 min., Service ceiling 35,000 ft. (10,670 m.), Normal range (maximum bomb load and normal fuel) 1,100 miles (1,760 km.) at 220 m.p.h. (352 km.h.) at 25,000 ft. (7,625 m.).


B-26 is as follows:

PERFORMANCE.-Maximum speed 287 m.p.h. (459.2 km.h.) at 5,000 ft. (1,525 m.), Landing speed 104 m.p.h. (166.4 km.h.), Service ceiling 19,800 (6,040 m.).


Lancaster is as follows:

PERFORMANCE.-Maximum speed 275 m.p.h. (440 km.h.).  Maximum range approximately 3,000 miles (4,800 km.).

And as that was less than useful, here is the info from Bombers of WWII:

Performance: maximum speed 442 km/h (275 mph) at 4570 m (15,000 ft); cruising speed 322 km/h (200 mph) at 4570 m (15,000 ft); service ceiling 5790 m (19,000 ft); range 4072 km (2,530 miles) with 3175-kg (7,000-lb) payload


Ju88 is as follows (from Jane's again):

PERFORMANCE.-Maximum speed 295 m.p.h (472 km.h) at 17,500 ft. (5,340 m.), climb to 17,500 ft. (5,340 m.) 23 mins., Service ceiling at mean weight 27,000 ft. (8,235 m.), Range with maximum fuel 1,900 miles (3,040 km.), Range with maximum bomb load (6,000 lbs.=3,000 kg.) 650 miles (1,040 km.).

Hope that helps.

Sisu

[bashwolf]

hiya Everyone

Bee we a have squad nite once a week and we wanted to get in b17 and destroy something happen to be Knits Hqs.  Most of time we were shooting the watermelon on RW all of us and laughing about different stuffs.  I am not the greatest gunner I order my guys to climb up as far as I can to get to target.  You kept saying AirwarriorDweebs etc.  My squadmates saw all of it we just kept our conversation On RW and Ignore all of your comments.  This was the 1st Raid we did On any of Hqs in a very long time.  I am not mad at you for those insult words because sometimes this game gets people all aggravated.  I have ran into spits or f4s or fws etc that were 25k to 30k and I would be in p38 or 109g10 at 20k and dive on my butt.  I never told those guys hey that plane should not be higher than me.  Its part of the game and I just say things to myself like darn he was a alt Monkey    So to make it short anyone in this game has the right to fly anything at any alt for 30 bucks they pay.  Be honest it took a lot of bombs to destroy and did like 4 to 5 circles before the hqs was destroy with the last bomb I had drop.  Some squad does thing different than other squad you mentioning how cavemanj does it etc.  We have about 20-25 players on our squad but only 7 made it at time of our take off.  So that doesnt give us a lot of escort cover for the task we were trying to accomplish.  I asked  Jolly to go along with us so he has nothing do it his great guy n pilot.  if we had say 20 of my squadmates showed  maybe we would of tried more of 25k run with some nice comfy escorts. But most of my squadmates couldnt make it and had go with 6-8 pilots.

A Note to everyone do what you got to do and have fun as much as you can with your 30 unless some else is paying for your account than you better Listen to that person    
See you all in the unfriendly skies.

Bash
 http://fly.to.airwolves

no rules, no ranks and all about fun

 

[bashwolf]

oops guys no break in that above post sorry.  Everyone take break than start reading, ok break, read, break, read.

lol

Bash

[Dingy]

Bee,

I understand your frustration but there are so many ways to game the game here.

Is having 3 different warring countries (one of which is probably getting gangbanged) any more realistic?  The essence of your post is the displeasure of being unable to defend the Bishop's attack yet just last weekend, the Bishops were being forced to defend against the Rooks and Nits despite having less than a quater of the number of planes of the other two countries combined.  This situation allowed Knights to completely destroy Bish city and HQ and keep it down for hours since there were not enough fighters to defend against HQ attack as well as defend their existing bases.  As I see it, the Knight buffs were just as invulnerable as Bishop buffs bombing from 33K+.  Is that any more realistic when one side has to defend against inordinate numbers of 2 different enemy?  

IF there were only 2 countries and this numerical imbalance occured I would equate it to one country losing the war but there are 3 countries so I call it taking advantage of gangbanging.

I'm not saying its right or wrong since there are so many discontinuities in the game that allow it to be abused like this.  Both situations are not fun to be in but hey....sh*t happens.  

-Ding

[tshred]

Beef, buffs didn't bomb anything at 30k in WWII. It shouldn't happen in Aces High.

Another thing that seems wrong. Any plane that can take off fully loaded from a 10k field with standard length runway (A1)!!!!!!!!! What's up with that? I thought the atmosphere was modeled? No way in Hell a B26 or B17 should be able to lift off of A1 with a bomb load no matter what fuel load it has, unless it was 3 times the length the runway is now, IMO.

ts

[SFRT - Frenchy]

I agree Bashwolf. Sometimes I get really mad at people but I always keep it for me. People play the way they want and I respect that. Spending time to climb to 25K to B&Z in a typhy just to find a 30k Spit. Engage a F4 in a Niki and see the guy dive, run. Setting up for a buff at 20K and see the buff always turning to maintain you in his 6. Seing 2 maned B26's looping and guning you.

You name it, they do it. Oh well, it's really frustrating sometimes, and so what? I'm pissed at a 5K higher pony runing away, but that's 'normal'. He doeasn't need to turn back to me so I can shot him down. It's a mind game, I learned that in Niki. Most of the time I have to tease my opponent, making him think he can get me, then he had a slip second to shot me down but if he misses me, he is in trouble... Kind of like the Wild Weasel tactic but in a Niki with B&Z figs hehehe.

For the buffs, well... everything is possible, u want to lower accuracy? you want to put more clouds at different lvl derivating all over the map? You want to suppress the 1 salvo (Surprised nobody mentioned that already), make it salvo half bomb load at least (it will force more buff to get airborne, no more 1 buff killing all the acks).

Solutions are aboundants, but till HTC changes something, I will not judge the way people fly, even if they frustrate me from time to time, I respect them because I know they use their strenght cleverly and that's normal.

Salute!!! (even to my friend Funked who miserably forced me to a ditch coming like a meteorite from nowhere in a typhy while I was dogfighting DMF/Pongo)  

Fear the Niki HiHiHi       http://home.cfl.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
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Olivier "Frenchy" Raunier
       www.sfrt.net

[This message has been edited by SFRT - Frenchy (edited 06-09-2000).]

[leonid]

BEE,
I think a big reason why B-17s didn't fly at such altitudes was the effect it had on the exposed crewmen.  I remember reading one story where a gunner was badly wounded from enemy attack, and was bleeding profusely.  His mates in desperation pulled him over to a gaping hole in the fuselage and placed his wound right over it.  In a minute, or two, it froze over and the bleeding stopped.

Also, I heard that v1.03 will have 88mm ack  

[straffo]

Bee !
</french lesson ON>
C'est a peu pret aussi drole que de voir 10 Bish 10 rook contre 45 knight  
mais c'est le jeu  
</french lesson OFF>

translated

It's as fun as seing 10 Bish ,10 rook versus 45 knight  
But it's the game  

cya!