Author Topic: Is it a crime to be poor? (Read 1242 times)

hardcase · « **Reply #75 on:** December 01, 2002, 02:25:04 PM »

Lasz.. Children on welfare are they criminals exploiting the system? 40 million americans do not have any health care insurance. McDonalds in Euro must pay for their employees health and they still seem to be making money. Dont live from paycheck to paycheck and get fired. Don't develope a chronic medical condition and expect to live the lenght of time the more affluent members do. When you complain about mothers on welfare, yoiu seem to overlook the kids. Able bodied Single males don't usually get to speak of. Some free medical clinics wont treat males for free. Disabled ppl get some welfare but it won't make for a decent living. My guess is that like most welfare moaners, you are young, never been in need, not umemployed, have no family concerns, Since you want to change the welfare system, by probably eliminating it how about some particulars on your youth and situation now. You can brag how nothing has gone wrong simply by the strenth of your will.

Being in need in America only works well if you are American Airlines. Others simply have to survive with a minimum of governmental help. Europe on the other hand, taxes more but more of the monies go back to the people in form of social programs that create a health society. Ever looked real close at the underside of American Society? You might be disenchanted.

HC

Thrawn · « **Reply #76 on:** December 01, 2002, 03:40:05 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
hardcase... it can be argued that with corporate welfare we at least get some return most of the time...

Oh roadkill, you don't see a dime of it, unless you are stockholder in some large multinationals.

The Small Business Administration gives millions to fast food chains, so they can open up yet another MacDonalds. Then that MacDonalds or Taco Bell, drives the legitibite small business out. Yeah that's good for everyone. Now your kid or migrant worker can get a minimum wage job.

The US government puts up unfair tarrifs against Canada in order to protect the American farmer, roadkill again. The American farmer and ranchers way of life is being destroyed by your own countries large multinational meat and agricultural companies.

I suggest you read a book called, "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser, it's very enlightening, and depressing.

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The more "safeguards" we put on the welfare system the more it becomes a benifiet to only those who are dishonest, ruthless and cunning. Like most lefty ideas... it sounds good but is unworkable in society. Lefties have allways been easily exploited by the criminal class.
lazs

A benefit to only those who are dishonest, ruthless and cunning? roadkill again. I know people have been on welfare that have been none of those. Unworkable? Yet more roadkill. Canada has had a larger social safety net then the US for years. And have a lower infant mortality, longer life span, are better educated, all while spending less on health care or education then they US, we also have less violent crime and consisitant score higher then the US in the UN list of best countries to live in. Soviet Canuckistan appears to be doing something right with this crazy Socialism thing.

funkedup · « **Reply #77 on:** December 01, 2002, 04:12:28 PM »

Wow, hardcase is going to need some oral foot removal cream.

funkedup · « **Reply #78 on:** December 01, 2002, 04:14:15 PM »

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And have a lower infant mortality longer life spam

Minus is that you?

Thrawn · « **Reply #79 on:** December 01, 2002, 04:32:36 PM »

no thrawn the purple tuesday is me

trestic · « **Reply #80 on:** December 01, 2002, 04:57:39 PM »

being mentally ill myself i can understand sick people more than any of you could ever hope. I consider myself very lucky to live in the period of history. Earlier in the united states history people were castrated for being ill, or put in mental institutions and locked away for life.

I was headed toward being homless before i started having delusions that someone was coming to kill me. And yes i did'nt take very many baths. its hard explain but i did'nt have enough motovation to take one. And stilll never the end of how i stink. If it was'nt for social security i'd be stuck with a family that did'nt even try to understand my illness before judging me. Thy probbaly would have kicked me out of the house and i would have started drinking to control my ilness without even knowing i was ill.

Most mentally ill people drink to control their illness. And yes some can be violent. But most ill people aren't violent when ilness is'nt active, but it can happen. Here in oregon you can have your right to own a gun taken away if the judge decides your a threat with one.

And i don't have a problem with working its just i don't have enough "motovation". its hard to explain but that the way it is.

LUPO · « **Reply #81 on:** December 01, 2002, 05:15:22 PM »

We are ALL homeless, if we lost our soul.
We're ALL ill, if we forget we're ALL brothers.

hardcase · « **Reply #82 on:** December 01, 2002, 08:29:41 PM »

Many ppl self medicate with alcohol. They self medicate because the social programs in the US are minimal at best. The US looks woderful on the surface but so many problems are under that surface. What sorta tickles me is so many in the middle class believe they are secure. Many are only 4 paychecks away from the street. No savings, no second skill, or are middle managment or a middleman in the consumer chain dependent on the ecomomy, depending on consumers. No major medical problems, no children who need 50K a year to stay alive with 250K on their major medicals as a max. HMOs whose motivation is the bottom line and not health care. They are simply one single tragedy away from poverty, natural or man made and yet they believe the Republican agenda has their welfare at heart. Most don't make enought money to qualify as truly Republican. They merely like to think so.

Trestic, I have some idea of the demons you battle and to fight someone who knows all your follibles and fears takes more guts than ppl can imagine. My hats off to you ...One day at a time, friend, works quiet well

Mine big broken thing was colon cancer, and without the VA's medical care I would have been at the mercy of the welfare sectors in America. My anti nausea pills alone will cost $1800 over a year of cheemo. In the welfare sector I would get the 25 cent ones that make you unable to function. I am one of the 40 million who work and the company does not provide heath care. I have absolute health care, 100% paid by your and my tax dollars and the risks I took from '66 to '68. Thte only diff between me and some poor guy working for $10/hour is the being drafted. Do not be poor or sick in America.

Where have I put my foot in my mouth? Just for a single example..you and I live in a country which has a third world infant motality rate. That is a condemnation of governmental policies that should haunt you.

HC

funkedup · « **Reply #83 on:** December 02, 2002, 03:17:41 AM »

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Originally posted by hardcase

Where have I put my foot in my mouth?

Comments about Lazs.

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Just for a single example..you and I live in a country which has a third world infant motality rate.

Can you document that? Last time I looked at those stats I don't recall the USA being bad at all.

wulfie · « **Reply #84 on:** December 02, 2002, 04:38:42 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
most of the men are vietnam veterans... they are also all about 35 years old.
lazs

Lazs nailed the B.S. dead center.

Did you know that as a group U.S. military veterans of the 'war in Viet Nam' had/have a higher level of education, a lower incidence of drug abuse/addiction, and are more successful in the business world than any other group of U.S. military veterans of any of the wars the U.S. was involved in before Viet Nam?

http://www.stolenvalor.com

Mike/wulfie

wulfie · « **Reply #85 on:** December 02, 2002, 04:54:11 AM »

Yeah hardcase and one of the biggest travesties in America is that there are guys sucking up money that guys like you deserve - guys who are getting $3000+/month, tax free, FOR LIFE, from the taxpayers for being '100% disabled due to PTSD' - except they never served a day in the military. They were rounded up for 'PTSD studies' (I can't sleep at night because the government trained me to kill babies with a knife for psyops being the mantra of such studies, along with other typical b.s. stories about the war in Viet Nam) by psychiatrists who were rabid 'the U.S. must pay for daring to fight in SEA' types during the war in Viet Nam. Such types didn't know what to say a couple of years after the 'sucessful people's revolution of self-determination by the people of Viet Nam' when the Soviet Union had a major Naval Base at Cam Rahn Bay and more innocent Vietnamese people had died in 2 years of 'communist peace' than in 14 years of 'imperialist war'. But that's a topic for another thread and another time...

Also, the only difference is not being drafted. One of the big differences is that you are still alive, while many others who were drafted are not. It doesn't make sense to not honor someone's sacrifice (in your case, subjecting yourself to life threatening situations to fulfill your civic duty) just because they didn't end up making the 'ultimate' sacrifice. What kind of a Nation would the U.S. be if they didn't take care of those who have answered the call as loyal citizens? There are alot of people who may be unemployed or on welfare today that were probably making a heck of alot more $$$ than you back in the late '60s and doing so in an infinitely safer environment (i.e., the private sector).

People in the U.S. should be appreciative for *any* welfare system. There are plenty of Nations in the world today that have no welfare system to speak of - where alot more people would be dying daily from starvation and exposure if it weren't for 'donations' from more wealthy Nations.

http://www.stolenvalor.org

Mike/wulfie

p.s. Hardcase the HMO problem was for certain present during 'democratic party watches' in the past - I'm the only guy in my entire extended Family (Dad, Uncles, etc.) who *isn't* a Doctor - and they have all been pissed at HMOs (and circumventing them and the more evil aspects of the health insurance system whenver possible) for quite some time now. A really good medical support system is tough in a democracy - it's always going to be expensive but the only people who will readily vote for it are people like you who have first hand knolwedge of how badly it is needed. And I know how badly it's needed as well but we need better control of benefits (i.e. sneaking across a border not equaling full benefits, a more secure National I.D., etc.) before such a plan would gain alot of support I think.

lazs2 · « **Reply #86 on:** December 02, 2002, 08:22:00 AM »

thrawn... this is not canada (thank gawd).. I don't believe you know anything about our welfare sytem and the amount of fraud involved. You must know how well your system works and how much all that infant mortality and education has helped your economy. You can keep your brand of socialism. I would love to see a comparison of canadas benifiets compared to the U.S.... All I know is that my brother is canadian and i send him money every month because he is disabled and doesn't get enough from canada to live on... On the bright side... the money I send is U.S. money and as such... worth something up there.

hardcase... I defy you to point out one person who was refused medical care in the U.S. at a county hospital. Most get the same care that I get. As for "migrant workers".... don't you mean illegal aliens? Far as I know all permanent employees at fast food places get benifiets.

Those bums out there aren't there because yesterday they were a 30 buck and hour construction worker and lost their job... people working at fast food places are not in careers. If they are... well... maybe they need to work longer hours. Those jobs should be stepping stones not careers.. they should be part time for college students and such... I don't give a crap about illegal alliens and would prefer they ask if I want fries with that in english that I understand.
lazs

Eagler · « **Reply #87 on:** December 02, 2002, 08:36:00 AM »

you guys are talkin about the last major block of demacrat voters now that the blacks are jumping ship to the republicans

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #88 on:** December 02, 2002, 10:26:30 AM »

Back in the late 1980s, the government of New York City, in what was hailed as a great humanitarian effort, started a program to build low-cost housing for the citiy's estimated 45,000 homeless vagrants.

Despite the money, time, effort, and hoopla, the city's population of homeless vagrants remained at or near 45,000. Studies later concluded that many of these homeless preferred their life on the streets because they could live there free of any obligations to the government programs or citizens' organizations.

The low-cost housing was later rented out to low and middle income families.

Regards, Shuckins