Author Topic: Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.  (Read 334 times)

Offline wulfie

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« on: November 25, 2002, 07:33:54 PM »
I think scoring, rank, and perk points should all be tied together.

As far as 'points' go for rank and scoring purposes, the rank and perk point totals of the person 'shot down' should matter.

In other words, as a rough example with purely 'off the top of my head' math included:

Shoot down an La-7 piloted by someone who has a fighter rank 2d from last while flying an La-7: .5 perk points.

Shoot down an La-7 piloted by Shane, who currently has the #2 fighter rank while flying an La-7: 10 perk points.

In addition, you'd get more 'scoring points' for shooting down someone of a higher rank.

Have the current odds in the arena affect scoring and perks as well.

Have total # of bases controlled by your side affect scoring and perks as well. If you land a 12 kill sortie when your team has 40 players and the other 2 teams have a combined 200 players, and your team is down to 2 or 3 airfields - reward for you. Lots of perk points and lots of scoring points.

Now don't get me wrong here - I in no way currently believe that 'rank' = skill. There are some guys with high ranks that are skilled in my opinion. I've also shot down guys in the top 10 or top 20 'fighter rank' list in a clean one on one and found myself thinking 'That guy sucked!'.

But this would open up alot of cool things in the future.

There's talk about SAR operations. Well, what better way to motivate people to fly SAR than to say you get perk points and score points based on the perk and score levels of the person you rescue?

Also, it would to some extent begin to instill *some* reality into a potential situation where rank has something to do with skill. A guy who shoots down 2 really high ranking 'fighters' and lands the kill will get more 'benefits' than someone who kills 9 Ju 88s on takeoff from a field with no AAA flown by someone with the lowest bomber rank in the game.

Here's anothe idea - would you all be in favor of having your perk values adjusted based on your k/d by aircraft type?

In other words, if you lost 200 of a certain type of aircraft during 1 TOD, for the next TOD you would personally have to pay perk points to fly that aircraft type. A decent k/d would offset the perk cost adjustment. The idea is to not hammer guys who love to mix it up but to dissuade the 'endless stream of suicidal fighter bombers' 'tactic', as well as the 'roll 40 times in a row from a heavily capped field' 'defensive tactic' - this would make 'vulching auto kills' less common, which would make k/d mean more, which would make rank more representative, etc.

Just ideas...

Mike/wulfie

Offline BNM

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2002, 10:26:37 PM »
I think anybody that shoots down Shane should get a trophy and 6 months of free AH for flying that high and chasing him that far / long. :D

Offline SLO

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2002, 08:46:43 AM »
some fly for the perks

some fly for the points

some fly the rankings

some fly to kill shane

most fly to have fun and completely ignore perks/points/rankings/and especially Shane:D

Offline Pongo

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2002, 10:29:33 AM »
I think that is a neat Idea. anyone that plays this game for long comes to understand its the pilot not the plane. I have watched shane tangle with 15 knights alone on the deck in an la7 and come out of it.
I think way more of getting a guy that I know knew what he was doing then getting the newest pilot in the game in his first 262. If there was a way for the score system to show that I think it would be cool.

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2002, 10:47:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
some fly for the perks

some fly for the points

some fly the rankings

some fly to kill shane

most fly to have fun and completely ignore perks/points/rankings/and especially Shane:D


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Offline Widewing

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2002, 10:53:59 AM »
Wouldn't work for one reason. The best pilots in this game don't care about score or ranking. Therefore, they will never present much in the line of perks.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Samiam

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This idea has merit
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2002, 11:51:48 AM »
But forget about perks. They are used to balance plane usage in the arena and should continue to be used this way.

Score and ranking are another matter. Here's an idea: Add another multiplier to the points equation, like

multiplier = 500 / (Ranking of Victim in type of vehicle you killed him in)

adjusting the 500 appropriately according to total number of users.

If you score a kill on a worse ranked player (over 500), then you get a fraction of the normal points for that kill. However, if you kill the #1 ranked player in that category, you get a 500x multiplier.

Of course, this would increase the use of spies and the better players would always be flying as if they had the ultimate "perk" icon hanging over their heads - gangbang city.

Never mind - it won't work. I still like some form of the idea, though.

Offline Wlfgng

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2002, 12:24:06 PM »
I think that scoring needs to be (somehow) separated from time spent online.  
As it stands now the pasty skin guys (you know who you are) have higher scores simply be spending more time online.

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2002, 12:46:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wlfgng
I think that scoring needs to be (somehow) separated from time spent online.  
As it stands now the pasty skin guys (you know who you are) have higher scores simply be spending more time online.


Then remove total points from the rank consideration and make it so you have to fly X amount of time in a tour to qualify for ranking (gotta have a minimum amount so that one person doesn't have a great sortie or two and then doesn't play anymore and gets the top rank, sorta like baseball does for the ERA and batting avg leaders/)

K/D+1
K/S
K/T
Accuracy

would be your 4 components for fighter rank.

Personally, I don't care about rank because a) I'm not any good to begin with and b) I spend more time in the SEA than I do the MA.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline poopster

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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2002, 01:18:46 PM »
Deft's page at WB required one sortie a day during the tour to qualify. When first started it required 2 sorties a day to qualify.

In other words the "points" column was eliminated.

Offline anton

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GREAT IDEAS
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2002, 03:38:36 PM »
WTG wulf.
If these ideas or even some of them, were implimented into the game, it would definitely help to cure some of the new & less disirable tendancies that are now previlant.
Anton

Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2002, 03:47:33 PM »
Why not just get rid of the rank/scoring system?  It's not like rank is an indicator of how well one flies.



Ack-Ack
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Offline Heinkel

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2002, 04:11:59 PM »
I agree, just dump the whole rank system. Keep the stats still available offline, but make it so that user X, can only access user X's stats, and no one else. Rank has no place in-game MA IMO. A re-worked rank system in the DA would give a better idea about who is and isn't, "rank."

Offline wulfie

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Rank, perk points, scoring, etc.
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2002, 04:49:51 PM »
The idea has nothing to do with the fact that *some* of the most highly skilled AH players don't care about rank *all the time*.

Everyone needs to remember that a player's motivation is not the same or driven by the same factors in each and every TOD a given player takes part in.

For example, drex doesn't care about score. But I distinctly remember him working on breaking a 100 kill streak in WB (I worked on this too at one time), and I also recall him working on being awarded all of the 'medals' in WB.

Why? Not because he wanted to do these things to 'prove' anything to anyone. But it's a challenge to be completed. When you've played online flight sims for years your reason for playing them can change month to month, even week to week.

Rank does not equal skill. But there are some highly ranked players *in any given TOD* that are very skilled. They are just in the mood to try and get a good rank for that TOD.

But this isn't about the top 3% of the MA in terms of skill in any way whatsoever. It's about the 65% (?, I don't know the exact %) of the MA that has (some) of their behavior driven by rank, score, perk points, etc.

Rank, score, perk points - matter to a large group of players, and affects their 'behavior' online. Rank, score, perk points - don't matter to me (anymore...score hasn't mattered to me really since the end of my first year of WB, a long time ago) and many others but the actions of the MA in general matter to everyone flying in the MA don't they?

I've got a buddy who saw me play WB for a long time who is just now getting into AH. He can't really compete vs. the top 50% of the MA in terms of 1 on 1 skill, but he sure tracks his rank, k/d, etc. Rank, k/d, score - these things are goals to be worked towards when other goals (shooting down your nemesis, who is way way better than you, winning 1 on 1s on a regular basis, etc.) are not attainable and won't be without many more months of practice.

People complain about 40 fighter bomber suicide 'waves' to set up 'organized vulches', all enabled by one team have twice the players of another team. What do you think causes these things? People vulch for one of 2 reasons in general I think:

1. To capture an airfield, i.e. to keep any defending aircraft from taking off and interrupting the deployment of ground troops attempting to capture said airfield.

2. To rack up lots of easy and safe kills so they have a 'nice looking score'.

2A. To rack up lots of easy and safe kills and land them for lots of perk points.

Everyone needs to remember that the person they are in AH today is not the person they always were in WB, AW, etc. At a certain point in terms of skill (barring a total lack of cojones or some deep psychological problems) the biggest 'rush' for many experienced AH/WB/AW types (myself and many other long time online flight sim types that I know included) is a really really down to the wire sweat on the joystick 1 on 1 fight against a good opponent. In the MA the cheap substitute for this is anything that is far from easy and involving direct competition - fighting 3 foes with a 'new guy'  and coming out of the fight with the 'new guy' alive, biting on a 4 or 5 to 1 fight and living to tell about it, etc.

But there was a point, early in WB, where landing 2 kills - any 2 kills - was a big deal for me. There was a point where killing 10 or more enemy aircraft for every aircraft I lost was a big deal.

Score, rank, perk points - they affect your online experience in the MA even if you 'don't care about them'. They affect the behavior of a large % of the MA.

I agree that eliminating score and rank would do some interesting (and probably good) things, but I don't think you'll see it happen. Too many 'new to online flight sim' players care about this - and 'jaded' 'veterans' of online flight sims need to remember that a 6 month 'veteran' of AH has zero in common motivation-wise with someone who played AW for 3 years and has played AH since beta.

And it's a bad thing to not have lots of new players coming in to a sims 'MA'. Sims and communities stagnate and become like communities of grumpy old men without new people arriving into the mix. I never flew AW. I recall actually being excited about 'meeting' (flying with) a whole community of guys I never had any contact with when I came to AH. Boy was I let down when I realized how badly they all sucked.

Joking. :)

In short - alot of 'pack' behavior that people don't like in the MA is driven by the scoring and rank system in my opinion. Altering the system to change it sounds like a reasonable *experiment* to me.

Mike/wulfie
« Last Edit: November 26, 2002, 04:52:56 PM by wulfie »

Offline Rotorian

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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2002, 04:54:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by wulfie


Mike/wulfie


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