A Scout is Brave, Loyal, Trustworthy...

[miko2d]

Having chlidren sleep in one room with adults that can be sexually attracted to them is against morals and traditions of most societies - and with a good reason. Of ccourse our definition of children includes 12+ year-olds who can be sexually developed and quite intentionally provocative and experimental.

 There are quite a lot of situations where people/parents expect sexual privacy - not having people around who can be sexually attracted to them or their children.

 Supposedely strictly gay man would be safe with girls or a lesbian with boys. Of course children or even adults may have problems understanding and dealing with stereotypes - and while someone's homosexuality may prevent him/her from being attracted to a person, it does not prevent the person from being attracted to or uncomfortable in from of such homosexual.

 miko

[Eagler]

isn't there a "pound the crap outa the paedophile" merit badge they can now work on?

[Dinger]

Organizations like the Boy Scouts draw pedophiles to them, and they always have.  If you've been in Boy Scouts (like I have), odds are one of the scoutmasters you encountered at some point was a pedophile.  And odds are that guy would have been married and professedly heterosexual.
Odds are also pretty good that an openly gay man is not a pedophile.  The person has stated a preference, and that's for adults.  He's come to terms with his sexuality, and declared it openly, taking the very real risk that some neanderthals will torture him to death because of it. I wouldn't worry about that guy screwing your kids.

The argument that:
"Those who commit sexual acts with persons of the same sex are homosexuals.  Pedophile scoutmasters are therefore homosexuals.  Therefore, we should outlaw professed homosexuals from the boy scouts."

Makes about as much sense as:

"Those who use firearms are gun owners.  Criminals who shoot cops are therefore gun owners.  Therefore, we should deny citizenship to all registered gun owners."

Do you guys think that hunting game is the cause of violent crime? Then what does sleeping with adult men have to do with the cause of abusing small children?
--
As far as drawing a line between homosexuality and pedophilia, well we draw a line between normal heterosexuals and pedophiles, don't we?  Pedophiles may pick members of either sex, and we can classify their societally unacceptable behaviour accordingly.

[ccvi]

Originally posted by H. Godwineson
Robert King, a 50 year old Florida Boy Scout leader has been charged with exposing himself to five young scouts and with showing them gay pornographic photographs.

Would it have been less bad if he had showed them heterosexual pornographic photographs?

[gofaster]

Those of you who think the universe revolves around you need not apply for membership in the Boy Scouts.  They don't need your kind around here!

===From Yahoo News via CBS=========

Atheist Eagle Scout Faces Expulsion

PORT ORCHARD, Wash., Oct. 31, 2002


(AP) Eagle Scout Darrell Lambert has earned 37 merit badges, worked more than 1,000 hours of community service and helps lead a Boy Scout troop in his hometown.

But the 19-year-old has another distinction that may lead to his removal from the Boy Scouts: He's an atheist.

Lambert was given roughly a week by the Boy Scouts' regional executive to declare belief in a supreme being and comply with Boy Scout policy, or quit the Scouts. The official and Lambert were to talk again this week regarding Lambert's answer, although a definite date hadn't been set.

"We've asked him to search his heart, to confer with family members, to give this great thought," Brad Farmer, the Scout executive of the Chief Seattle Council of the Boy Scouts, told The Sun of Bremerton. "If he says he's an avowed atheist, he does not meet the standards of membership."

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize some higher power, not necessarily religious. "Mother Nature would be acceptable," Farmer said.

As a private organization, the Boy Scouts are permitted to exclude certain people from membership. The organization bans gays and atheists.

Lambert, who has been a Scout since he was 9, said he won't profess a belief he doesn't feel, saying it amounts to a lie. "I wouldn't be a good Scout then, would I?"

The issue arose about three weeks ago when Lambert got into an argument with a Scout leader at a Boy Scout leadership training seminar over whether atheists should be expelled from the organization. Farmer's office soon contacted him to talk about his nonbelief.

Lambert disclosed his atheism to Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but still received the award.

The issue has surfaced before. In 1998, 16-year-old twins Michael and William Randall, who refused to take an oath to God, were awarded Eagle badges after a seven-year legal fight with the Orange County, Calif., council. Would a belief in the legal system as a higher power meet the BSA requirements?

[H. Godwineson]

ccvi,

Isn't it bad enough as it is?  

Until 30 years ago, the majority of Americans considered homosexuality to be a form of sexual deviancy.  Hardly anyone would have questioned the wisdom of banning them from positions of authority over children.

The world turns.  Rightly or wrongly, many Americans, raised on the dogma of diversity, now see no problem in allowing homosexuals to be school teachers or scout masters.

I'm not advocating carrying torches through the streets at night to hunt down and lynch gays.  If they wish to live that sort of life-style, more power to them.  What I am questioning is the notion held by many that there is nothing wrong with allowing them to be placed in positions of influence over our children.

Regards, Shuckins

[H. Godwineson]

The Boy Scouts of America was founded by religious organizations.  The rules of conduct were established to reinforce certain Christian principles.  Membership is purely voluntary.  All prospective Scout Masters are familiar with these principles.  If they do not agree with them or wish to abide by them, then they should find another organization where they can interact with children.  The atheist scout master knew this from the beginning.  His complaints sound like an attempt to garner a little recognition for himself.  Sorry if I seem to be judgmental.  I simply think that individuals have no right to complain about the rules of membership in an organization that they are not required to join.  This case is comparable to an African-American complaining about the membership regulations of the Ku Klux Klan.

Regards, Shuckins

[blur]

How did the Christmas float turn out?

[Kanth]

Originally posted by H. Godwineson
How would you classify a paedophile who molests only young boys?

as someone who hates little boys and wants to voilate them

Originally posted by H. Godwineson
Or a paedophile who molests only young girls?

someone who hates little girls and wants to violate them.

Defenders of gay rights consistently draw a distinction between the paedophile and homosexuality.  But I fail to see a clear distinction.  Can we not just say that a paedophile who preys on the younger members of a single sex is a homosexual who prefers younger partners?  Or is that too insensitive?

Shuckins [/B]

No we can say that as long as we classify pedophile who preys on children of the opposite sex as a hetero who prefers younger partners.

which makes pedophilia just folks who like younger partners..

nah I don't see that as insensitive in the least.

[Eagler]

does that mean they are canceling the "Deliverance" canoe trip?

[Kanth]

it was a little flamboyant

Originally posted by blur
How did the Christmas float turn out?

[Saurdaukar]

Why are there people suggesting that sexual orientation makes no difference in this case?  I was a Scout - had no homo leader, no homo members, and no homo parents.  We fished, hunted, camped, beat eachother up, and on those "non-sanctioned" weekend trips we'd get an $8 case of beer, find a pack of cigarettes somewhere, and get out ol' Tony's father's porn (who was the scout master).  This, afterall, is what makes boys men.  

I think the situation would be drasticly altered if the Penthouse magazines were replaced with Pillow Biter Illustrated and our Scout Master encouraged us to perform the acts on page 37 and not tell mommy and daddy.

Lets not allow PC to cloud our vision here folks... no gays in Boy Scouts - period.  Heterosexual leaders volunteer for the kids, homosexual leaders volunteer for themselves.

[StSanta]

Shuckins, I'd be equally worried about a sadomachocist having influence on my children. Or a heterosexual couple that indulge in animal or poop sex.

Straight kinky sex might be far worse (judging by Christian moral standards) than normal vanilla gay sex. So if you think gay sex is abhorrent (my view), just know that the hetoersexual man or woman who's the scout leader and is so pleasant to talk with might be a kinky sunufabeeatch in bed, excrementing over his partner for kicks.

I know of plenty of heterosexual couples who enjoy anal and oral sex - the very act as gay couples participate in. And (scary as this thought is) if someone was blindfolded and then given 10 partners, five of each gender, and then given access to their anal and oral orifices, I'd say that he or she would get the gender wrong more than once.

So the physical sensation would be very similar. Which begs the question what's the big deal with homosexuality? The answer: there ain't one. Equating homosexuailty with child molestation is as stupid as equating hunting with murders comitted with guns in an inner city - as Dinger so eloquently pointed out. I'd like to see his arguments rebutted, as one will have to build straw mans to do so. And fail.

Male homosexuality is a practice I personally find disgusting, but that is my personal preferences. Female homosexuality means absolutely nothing to me, although I know a lot of men who find male homosexuality disgusting find female homosexuality sexually titillating.

And I am intelligent enough to see that ones sexual preference (one way or another) does not automatically make one a child molester.

Regarding temptations; I am tempted daily to grab a womans bellybutton or tits - but I don't. The average person, homosexual or heterosexual, doesn't fall for the temptation.

Having a heterosexual scout master is no guarantee that he is not a child molester - statistically, I'd say that there's more heterosexual child molesters per 1000 people than there are homosexual ones.

The Boy Scouts is a private organisation and is thus priveledged to include or exclude people as they see fit - to a degree. And it doesn't work as society in general. The Boy Scouts may not discriminate based on race - but they may discriminate based on sexuality, spiritual beliefs and speech - i.e they far from mirror the democratic values. However, this is their prerogative, and they're entitled to hold the opinion that what they do is very 'American and democratic', despite evidence against this. Gays and atheists do not have a 'right' to be members - it's a (questionable?)priviledge.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Saurdaukar
Lets not allow PC to cloud our vision here folks... no gays in Boy Scouts - period.  Heterosexual leaders volunteer for the kids, homosexual leaders volunteer for themselves.

Ya, no blacks or jews either!  The jews just do it to get closer to the kids parents money.

Your such an idiot Saurdaukar, you have no idea what you are talking about.

[H. Godwineson]

Some of those who espouse tolerance and diversity castigate conservatives and fundamentalists for trying to "foist their versions of morality on the rest of society."

But aren't those of you who insist that the Boy Scouts are wrong and should change their standards doing the same thing...attempting to foist your own standards of morality on society?

Regards, Shuckins