Author Topic: Question to religious "pro-lifers" (only, plz). (Read 2814 times)

Eagler · « **Reply #90 on:** December 04, 2002, 01:25:37 PM »

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Originally posted by H. Godwineson
Or does the lack of movement give it the status of a tumor?

Shuckins

tumor with a heart beat

Thrawn · « **Reply #91 on:** December 04, 2002, 01:38:37 PM »

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Originally posted by Eagler
tumor with a heart beat

mosquitos have a heart beat

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #92 on:** December 04, 2002, 01:53:47 PM »

I see that the picture of the aborted child has been "edited." It must have been too graphic and disturbing for some of the more sensitive posters on this bulletin board. They shouldn't have to confront the truth in such a fashion.

Shuckins

Greese · « **Reply #93 on:** December 04, 2002, 01:56:06 PM »

How is having free will not biblical? Wouldn't you agree you are free to make your own choices?

Also, what is the point of the new testament if not that we CHOOSE to follow Jesus? Calvinism holds water if you look at it piece by piece, but it just goes against the main point of the bible. Look at the big picture, why would God have us all on puppet strings?

I shouldn't get involved in threads like these.

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #94 on:** December 04, 2002, 02:00:34 PM »

My mistake...just saw it on the first page while re-reading some of the posts. God save us from ourselves.

Shuckins

RDSaustinTX · « **Reply #95 on:** December 04, 2002, 08:41:45 PM »

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How is having free will not biblical?

Find it for me. There are literally hundreds of verses describing predestination and election.

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Also, what is the point of the new testament if not that we CHOOSE to follow Jesus?

To edify and instruct the redeemed.

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why would God have us all on puppet strings?

Why does your theology assume God is readily understood?

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I shouldn't get involved in threads like these.

Me either

Sandman · « **Reply #96 on:** December 04, 2002, 11:01:05 PM »

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Originally posted by H. Godwineson
My mistake...just saw it on the first page while re-reading some of the posts. God save us from ourselves.

Shuckins

That's what we have the government for.

UserName · « **Reply #97 on:** December 06, 2002, 09:14:46 PM »

StSanta · « **Reply #98 on:** December 07, 2002, 09:31:13 AM »

How I wish I could post something in return to the arguments being put here.

However, that's not what this thread is about.

Kieran · « **Reply #99 on:** December 07, 2002, 09:57:26 AM »

RD-

Explain Adam and Eve if there is no free will. God made them eat the apple because he knew the future? No.

God knows how it will all play out, of course, but this does not mean He makes us do anything with our free will. It's still our choice whatever we do.

StSanta · « **Reply #100 on:** December 11, 2002, 09:22:51 AM »

Kieran, assuming God is all knowing, putting two humans in vicinity of that apple tree and then forbidding them to eat from it is really a bit puzzling, if free will enters the picture.

It's akin to writing a computer program where you know what the end result will be, and then condemning that program to be deleted because of what it did.

Adam and Eve might have free will, but God knew that they were gonna eat from the tree - even before he created them or the tree. They may have exercised their free will, but it dinnae matter, as God knew what was gonna happen. had they chosen not to, he'd also known that. Really quite a cool gimmick that covers everything. But, responsibility for the situation should not solely be placed on the 'program' - the programmer has some burden to bear.

Of course, if we assume God isn't all knowing, it makes more sense.

AtmkRstr · « **Reply #101 on:** December 11, 2002, 09:33:36 AM »

Abortion stops a beating heart. It's never a morally correct choice.

Hortlund · « **Reply #102 on:** December 11, 2002, 10:28:53 AM »

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Originally posted by StSanta
Kieran, assuming God is all knowing, putting two humans in vicinity of that apple tree and then forbidding them to eat from it is really a bit puzzling, if free will enters the picture.

It's akin to writing a computer program where you know what the end result will be, and then condemning that program to be deleted because of what it did.

Adam and Eve might have free will, but God knew that they were gonna eat from the tree - even before he created them or the tree. They may have exercised their free will, but it dinnae matter, as God knew what was gonna happen. had they chosen not to, he'd also known that. Really quite a cool gimmick that covers everything. But, responsibility for the situation should not solely be placed on the 'program' - the programmer has some burden to bear.

Of course, if we assume God isn't all knowing, it makes more sense.

Maybe you should just acknowledge the fact that man cannot understand God. If you do believe in God, then you believe that God created man. That means you acknowledge the fact that God is capable of things beyond our comprehension.

If you dont believe in God on the other hand, then I dont understand why you post on this subject...unless you are trying to provoke or redicule, and that makes you on the same level as mrfish (an idiot).

I suggest reading the book of Job.

Or try Kirkegaard if you dont want to read the Bible.

Apache · « **Reply #103 on:** December 11, 2002, 10:59:05 AM »

Heya StSanta, how ya been?

Sin and evil are not "things" that exist autonomously. They are the result of the "absense" of God.

For example, what is a vacuum? It isn't a "thing" that exists in and of itself but rather is a result of the removal of everything, a void.
Or, how do you cool a room on a hot day? You don't put cold in, you remove the heat.

See?

God created all things. Sin is the result of the absense of Gods perfection.

Kieran · « **Reply #104 on:** December 11, 2002, 03:07:48 PM »

Sorry, been a busy day...

I am a parent. I have seen situations where I watched my daughters do things wrong. I knew they were going to do the wrong thing, because the situation was such they were bound to yield to temptation. I allowed it to happen, and then punished them. Why?

Because they will eventually have to become mature. The situations will come time and again where my children will have to make the right choice, regardless how tempting the other choice might be. No matter how it is sliced, my daughters are going held accountable for the choices they make.

Cruel? You may think so, I don't. In the same manner, I accept God may allow me to be in a situation where I have to make a choice- in fact, He guarantees it will happen. He also guarantees I will never face a situation beyond my ability to cope. These situations are used by God to form me, if I allow them to. Of course I could continue to resist, and refuse to learn the lessons.

You see, I point at myself and say, if I removed everything else from the situation, I still made the wrong choice when I clearly knew the right thing to do. No matter what caused that situation, it was my choice. That God knew what I would do doesn't make it His fault or His choice. He allowed me to make the wrong choice- free will. That doesn't make the choice His fault. This is where a lot of non-believers go wrong in the argument... they assign blame to God for the choices people are allowed to make.