Author Topic: Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here  (Read 1395 times)

Offline Dead Man Flying

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2002, 02:39:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Can't understand why they wouldn't. I think that the thrust of such a marketing ploy would simply be the fact the HTC awards money to their players for their skills ... the avenue(s) thru which the money is awarded/dispursed is secondary in the plan.


It's just simpler to sell "skill" as being the "top 15 players" rather than a series of competitions outside the scope of the regular game.  And since activity in AH mainly revolves around the MA at this point, there's actually more truth in advertising to reward "success" there than in some other endeavor.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Nilsen

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2002, 02:58:32 PM »
I have never seen so many people bail from C47's and other "inferior" planes after the award thingy was announced.

Im not gonna give names, but i saw one guy close to the top of the ranking bail in his LALA over his own field rather then to get shot down/vulched. :rolleyes:

This prize brings out the worst in some gamers.

HTC should put their heads togeher and find some other way of awarding cash that would promote teamplay, or atleast not something that makes the deweebs worse.

Offline SlapShot

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2002, 02:59:40 PM »
Levi ...

You are as hard and evasive to shoot down on the BBS as you are in the MA ... :D

There is a lot of logic and truth in your posts ... but the exclusionary implications and the ability to game the score just taints the core of this competition.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline SlapShot

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2002, 03:03:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by gofaster
So jump to Bishop so you won't have to face their hordes and lose your ranking.  I did, this afternoon.  I figure I'll give it a go for a few days, then jump back to Knights in time for squad night.


Not even if HTC was giving away $1,000,000 would I jump to the Bish ... :D
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Turbot

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2002, 03:09:21 PM »
There is another way to look at this.

Now that everyone will exploit every trick they know in earnest - perhaps this was just the cheapest and easiest way for HTC to ferret out the bugs in the game and the code.   They just have to wonder about with CM eye or whtever and watch :)

Offline Midnight

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2002, 03:21:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
Because their winning money serves as a great promotional tool for Aces High.  HTC had to set some sort of criteria for awarding cash prizes, and overall rank seems like the most logical and objectively simple way to do it, especially to an outsider looking in at the game.

-- Todd/Leviathn


Some "outsider" thinking about playing Aces High is not going to have a prayer in hell of winning this competition. Sure, some might be interested enough to come into the game and try it, but will be quickly discontented when they find out the way to #1 ranking is done with parlor tricks and the exploitation of a weak scoring system.

Offline Reschke

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2002, 04:14:13 PM »
Why not just give the money to the people without annoucing it. Or just give the money to the lowest 15 scoring "players" and announce that. :p

Hell I might even qualify for the last category. :)

Anyway its just a marketing tool but I definetely think you will see the number of "check 6" calls go from rare to never. :p

Good Luck to all who will participate and I hope you have fun. !
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
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Offline Lazerus1

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2002, 04:34:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Exactly the point ... That is the fundemental flaw with this competition ... how good are you at gaming the game/score ... not how good are you at all aspects of WWII Combat.

I've always understood that the best way to keep your score up is to survive.
I've also always understood that the most important aspect of WWII was to come home alive.
At least that's what all those old guys told me. But they don't know what they're talking about i guess.

Of course you have to be effective too, you can't just fly around in circles in CV ack the whole tour, shout that you didn't die once, and expect to be ranked #1. On the other hand, you cant HO every con, kamakazi every plane into a target and shout that you have the most kills and should be #1. While nothing is perfect, I think the scoring system in AH has been well thought out and effective. Of course I've been wrong before.





Just once




:D
« Last Edit: December 04, 2002, 04:38:43 PM by Lazerus1 »

Offline ccvi

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2002, 05:54:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Midnight
Some "outsider" thinking about playing Aces High is not going to have a prayer in hell of winning this competition. Sure, some might be interested enough to come into the game and try it, but will be quickly discontented when they find out the way to #1 ranking is done with parlor tricks and the exploitation of a weak scoring system.


They won't find out before they got shot down at least 100 times.

Offline OZkansas

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2002, 12:24:21 AM »
This will be interesting to see if the "hot sticks" will be flying to live.  This will be a new challenge for them and may change how they fly, at least for the duration.  That kill that may put them in a sticky situation just may not be taken.

Isn't this the type of flying the Mission Arena will be offering?  Flying to complete the mission and live is rewarded while the "lone wolf" type of flying will only earn frustration by reducing their score.

HTC will learn alot and maybe new people will discover our passion and addiction!  Ya gotta admitt HTC sure keeps this interesting!

Offline Amboss

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2002, 01:24:49 AM »
Look at it this way, HTC succeeded in taking the focus of these boards away from "1.11 when?" to this new competition thingy that is a complete throw-money-out-of-the-window exercise as far as I am concerned.  Nice diversion.

The reason why I consider it a bad competition is simply the fact that it does nothing to improve AH, neither the community nor the sim. Some loyal believers say that "maybe" HTC will track the competition in order to improve the scoring system, but if you look at things objectively, you'll find out that the weaknesses of the scoring system have long been established and there's a neat thread by Wotan showing exactly how to exploit it. HTC needn't look further than that one thread if they were intent on fixing the scoring system.

Some cite marketing reasons but I don't quite buy that; people who quit AH aren't going to return because of prizes which they'll never get and new players hopefully aren't naive enough to believe that they have snowballs' chance in hell of winning those prizes vs. the seasoned players who consistently appear in the top 100 scorelists.

This not very thought through "competition" is nothing more than  a christmas present for a select few pilots.

-Amboss

Offline BNM

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2002, 01:31:53 AM »

Offline Booky

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2002, 01:45:38 AM »
How many of you know me? Slapshot, do you know who I am?

I am by far not the best pilot in the game. However I have to argue with you slapshot. I do the "Everything" that you talk about. I will dive into a 10 on 1 to save a fellow pilot, even if they are not a squadie. I kill CV groups almost everyday that I fly. I deack fields more than the average flyer. About the only thing I wont do is up at a capped field just to get vulched 10 times.

Haveing said that, if you look at my overall rank, I am in the top 15 quite a bit. This post was to prove to you that not just the gamey players will be rewarded. But then again, you would have to know me to know if I was a gamey score potato.

I think all this bickering comes from whiny little la7 flyers that want nothing but furballs. Now since that is all they want, and all they will do, then they wont get anything.:p

Just ask most guys about me. Im sure of what the majority will say. Or at least I think I know what they would say. They would say, "Damn, Booky, Your head is soo fat."

lol
Booky

Offline JB42

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2002, 02:31:05 AM »
Lets through some arbitrary numbers out there. I would guess that anyone who ranks in the top 100 consistantly thinks they have a shot at the money. Lets assume( I hate to do that, but for shins and giggles lets) that at any one time 40 of those pilots are online. Ahh, lets say 36 to make it divisable by 3. That means 12 in each country. Again to make the numbers easier to crunch, lets say the average online flyers for each country is 96 at any givin time. Thats 1/8th of each countries flyers "padding" their ranks.

In a game that's supposed to have a community and stresses teamwork, this is very counter-productive. Would you like 1/8 of your co-workers doing only whats good for them? How about 1/8 of your police force writting only speeding tickets because of the bonuses involved in the quantity they write. 1/8 of your firemen responding to "cat in a tree calls" because they can do more of them in the time it takes to put out one fire? Albeit, those examples are a little more critical than this game, but human nature is human nature.

Lets not forget the 100s of guys who have no shot what so ever still trying for "the dough". For those of you who responded by saying you know you have no shot so you keep doing what your doing, I say thats because you have flown in the community long enough to hold those values higher. This competition was never here to corrupt your in game morals. Where this is going to really hurt are the newer flyers who think they can do it.

I've already heard response to help or do missions come back with "sorry that will hurt my attack rating" or "not going there to get shot down and ruin my fighter rank". I have wittnesed PT boats sitting off enemy bases firing rockets into hangers to up their "hit percentage on objects" rating. Just tonight a guy bragging about his 74 kills and explaining he did it by sitting on a base and waiting for kills.

We all know if your CPID doesnt begin with a "F" (Fester, Fariz) your not getting number one. So whats the point? Rewarding AH flyers should be encouraged, but by other means. How about reward for most kills/sorties landed. Best hit object/sortie or even highest hit percentage in a fighter or bomber? At least these goals can be belived to be helpful in the arena.

One positive thing not to be overlooked is maybe we will all get a better idea of who the team players are and who is best left on their own.

(IMHO)

PS. As to Udet's response about the glamourization of real aces in WWII. Don't ever compare this game to real life. Yes the top guns got the glory while the average pilot got nothing, but those ace's real gift was the gift of being able to wake up another morning. Don't confuse recognition with reward. They were recognized as great pilots, but rewarded with their lives.
" The only thing upping from the CV are lifejackets." - JB15

" Does this Pony make my butt look fat?" - JB11

" I'd rather shoot down 1 Spit in a 109 than 10 109s in a Spit." - JB42

Offline MadBirdCZ

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Championship Shootout ... Something is wrong here
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2002, 04:38:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying

So you're saying that there is some other method beyond overall rank that would make totally intuitive sense to people who don't play the game?  KOTH... Jabo competitions... de-acking competitions... dueling ladders...  what a nightmare for newcomers to have to sort through that.  It's much easier to just reward the "top 15 players" and call it a day.  Everyone can understand that, even if they don't know how HTC specifically computes rank.  In that sense, overall rank is the logical and objectively simpler advertising tool.


It is easyer but it very far from being objective nor fair to other players. Saying my own opinion about this so called contest: "It Stinks!" and yes you can quote me on that.

I pay my money to be able to fly the sim online and to enjoy it. By paying my money monthly to HTC I expect them to work on improving the game and not to give that money to a selected group of score potatos whos gamey behavior will just be encouraged by this.

Of course my... "score" in any given category is absolutely out of the questin because I suck no matter what i try to do but I would find much more fair to other players to have this contest money (if there really needs to be some sort of contest) divided into smaller ammounts of cash and awarded to top scoring players in selected categories instead of overall ranked players. Please keep in mind that there are tons of people wo pay to play AH only to be able to fly fighters and they spend 90% of their (most of the time - limited time thay can spend online) time doing so. If AH bulds on reality then this contest is really a failure since real pilot in WW2 when not on fighter sortie was for sure driving GVs or mnning cruiser gun batteries...

Well I think I will devote the limited time i spend online to hunt down no matter who is in the top 15 at the time... And if they want to go for the overall score then HTC should put in special set of "SCW" icons indicating that the con is a Top15 score potato... Lets say sort of a perk-tag. Well when the person should get real money for his "skills" then he should earn it... What do you think? And this last paragraph is not meant as a joke... (neither are the previous ones)