The Flight Sim Wars... AH v WB v AW???

[Beaz]

Hi guys...

Seeing as we have speculated and asked just about every question under the sun about AH that Pyro and HT are likely to answer I just began to wonder on your thoughts about who is likely to win the "online" flight sim stakes game.

Will AW die a death now that there is a new kid on the block... are 3 in the bed (soon to be 4) more than the market can handle and keep all of them afloat?

Will WB wither and die as more people get fed up with the QuakeBirds concept, crappy connects, shoddy gunnery and toejamty pieces of connection software like iLZ? Will "David" triumph over "Goliath"?

Is AH too much like WB and will HTC's resources enable them to do what they want to do? Will the percieved lack of Mac support really hurt their fledgling business?

If a new guy came to you and said "hey... I'd like to start flying an online flight simulator", which direction would you then point him in?

Regards

Daren

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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"

[delta]

Hey Beaz,


Definitely not in the AW direction.
I tried out AW years ago and was not impressed at all.

I've already pointed one individual from work into the WB arena, but only because it's the only high realism sim available. And while he only can afford from a time point of view to tinker around in offline and H2H modes, he plans to eventually get an account.


IMHO, AW is for kids and casual players, who don't know or care for the difference between game play and realism.  In simpler language, AW is a game of checkers.

WB is for those individuals who appreciate the history, significance and contributions of WW2 aircraft and pilots to the war effort.  You have to use both skills and intellect to get a sense  of achievement in WB, at least I do. WB is for those individuals who prefer a games of chess.

Unfortunality, the people who are now in charge of the chess games would love to turn it into a glorified, eye-candied, simplier game of super checkers.  A checkers games is not a chess match.

And this is not my bag of tea.

To me, the battle will be between AH and WB.

There are no other contenders.


delta

[Vermillion]

You don't have a strong opinon do you Delta?

Seriously, you make it sound as if the AW players are a bunch of congenital idiots compared to people that play WB's. Just a bunch of backwoods "Checker's" players that can't step up to the sophisticated game of "Chess".

Bull, pure and simple Bull    

I have played both games for a long long long time (and continue to do so). And the major differences between the two games players?

Money.

WB's players simply have more disposable income. And its been my experience in life that money doesn't make you a better player, more dedicated, more intelligent, or even a better member of the community. It simply means you have more money.

I don't know what you tried or when. But the Full Realism AW players are just as dedicated to realism, accuracy, and the historical aspect of WWII, as the WB's players.

Yep, the Relaxed Realism players are typically a bunch of childish Quake types.  BUT that is why there is a relaxed realism, for the casual gamer.

So please try to not be so insulting and condescending to AW players.  Because if you think that AH can draw its player base soley from WB's and survive, well IMO think your wrong. Hopefully some of AW types will join us here in this great new game.

Just remember before you start insulting people, that most of your old time WB players CAME from AW (myself included), and we wont' even mention the original ICI crew who wrote WB's and now AH.

The game may be superior, but if you check the ego's at the door, you will find the people very similar.

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Vermillion **MOL**
"Shooting is NEVER too good for my enemys" --Evil Overlord


[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 07-29-1999).]

[Pyro]

Good post Vermillion.

Come on guys, lets not make this a forum for bashing other games or the people that play them.

People are going to play the game that they think gives them the best value.  More choices is a good thing for the consumer.  There are no right or wrong choices to be made when it comes to deciding what gives you the best value.  Nobody else can determine that for another person.

Personally, there will never be another game to me like AW.  That game captured my imagination and then enslaved me like a crackhead.  



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[-ik-]

LOL pyro!

[Trips]

Beaz asks:

>Will AW die a death now that there is a
>new kid on the block... are 3 in the bed
>(soon to be 4) more than the market can
>handle and keep

My guess is that there will be plenty of room for plenty of online sims. None will be identical to the others, each will draw a loyal following of its own, and there will likely be a substantial group that plays more than one.

Trips

[zath]

I know this will sound trivial among the ideas being discussed in this thread but what really has me worried is re-programming my F22/TQS  

--
zath - Dweebs of Death

[Beaz]

Yeah... come on guys... lets NOT get dragged down to a WB v AW type argument... it serves absolutely no purpose.

I'm more interested in the "business" aspects of this. Personally I think the percieved lack of Mac support is gonna hit HTC hard. The 4th Fighter Group have already indicated that they won't play a flight sim as a squad if their Mac buddies can't fly it... I have to say that the new Tangmere Wing, formally the Duxford Wing consisting of some 50-60+ WB players will probably go down the same route. Loyalty runs deep and we won't leave these guys out in the cold. Your talking about big organisations. Can HTC really afford to ignore all that potential business. The first "newcomer" to offer a Mac/PC game along the same lines is gonna get alot of support.

Will "David" triumph over the "Goliaths"... well all I can say is good luck. If HTC is as lean as it looks and the product good enough then they could really give the "Goliaths" a bloody nose... looks interesting  

Regards

Daren

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Beaz
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
A member of the Tangmere Wing

[lasse]

I only want one thing, realism.

yeah, I know realism is a relative expression, but I want to feel I am in a plane in a real world, not that i play a video game, and yes I know the difference between the real world and a virtual world   .

I feel WB is more realistic than AW, thats why I fly WB, when AH comes, I am willing to bet on that(this) sim will beat WB in realism, so in the long term I think Ill be a full time AH player  


Just my 0.2$

I will definitively be an AH player if Pyro adds that Lancaster I have wanted for years by now  

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The Wild Vikings
Commanding Officer
lasse-

[This message has been edited by lasse (edited 07-29-1999).]

[Strider]

As a flight sim enthusiast I have to say that  I hope AH winds up being a replacement for either WB or AW. Both of those games have a host of problems which drive their players nuts at times. Both of them are damn good games as well. I prefer Full realism and I fly AW simply because of the $. Both games have their good and bad points.
I am not a casual player nor,am I a kid.
Because I am an avid FR type, and because both sims (AW and WB) are not perfect, I am always on the lookout for the next sim that comes along which would seek to upend the venerable old AW and the newer yet imperfect WB. It hasn't happened yet. I know of Hi-Tech and Pyro by reputation, and because of this I am more hopeful than I have been in a while.
I am jaded a bit though, brought about by the inumerable patches promised by the Kesmoids, and always disappointed  
I wish the Hi-tech guys well.

[Strider]

Pyro: AW did the same thing to me; I have been hooked ever since  
So, I hope you and Hi-tech hurry and gimme my next fix  

[Cuff]

It's interesting that although a bunch of people claim to be looking for the most "historically realistic" simulation out there, but the WB mainstay is the main arena.

The WB main arena is NOT realistic, given the icons, the aircraft types and the strategic element.  So my assumption is that the participants are looking for conditional realism; that is realism according to their own definition and not the real McCoy.

Realism would entail pre-flight briefings, long flights enroute to targets and/or bogies, mechanical failures, poor visibility, haze and clouds and other weather phenomenon, fatigue, as well as physical discomfort just to name a few.

Until you are strapped in a hurtling piece of machinery with that .50 cal machine gun or 20mm cannon occasionally pointed in your direction as you fly with the other guy trying to shoot your ride to smithereens (including you), and departing each sortie knowing that you might not make it home and ever see your loved ones again, the whole "realism" thing is a ridiculous issue.

What we're really all looking for is entertainment, pure and simple.  To be honest I don't think any of us want too much realism - just enough to give us the fantasy of being a WW2 fighter jock without the negative points (like dying).  And how far that realism is taken while still keeping the fun is the target for the sim developers.

[GunsGG]

  Good points all.  IMHO realism means not only a computer airplane that acts like an airplane, but also a conflict that acts like a conflict.  Otherwise we would all be flying Microsofts Flight Sim.

  Soon to be four...better upgrade that number to six or seven, as a lot of the boxed sims coming out like "B17" will allow 32 players at once....and like the shooters of four years ago, when one is succesful, there will be a deluge of new products, all tying in to a virtual world.

  The winners will be those offering unique products that offer the "best" in something, that give the consumer the most perceived value for their currency.  The monopoly is over, let the games begin  

[DRAHN]

Hiya folks,

 I don't know any of you, but most of ya seem to be pretty nice folks. On this issue of will AW die, I personally am sure that AW will survive. It won't do it because it's a better sim, from what I've read here and seen on WB's front end, it is and will be rather low quality. What will make AW survive is the community that has ties there.

For example: I started playing AW in 05/97 when I first got AOL, when AOL started their hourly charge for AW2 and Gamestorm opened with a flat rate of 9.95 a month, there was a mass exodus to GS. Their I managed to get good enough to attract the attention of the 444th Air Mafia. They are almost like a 2nd family. The folks are wonderful and very helpful to each other.

Point is guys and gals, unless something drastic happened, like global thermo-nuclear war, I for one would never ever think of leaving the squad. I think folks might be surprised how much loyality there actually is there amongst other squads as well. Only question is, can I afford AH and AW. From what I've heard and read, the game sounds really good. I wish the best of luck to all and will cross my fingers that it will be affordable enough to do both.

Thanks for your time and patience.
DRAHN

[dogftr]

 Not to harp. But in truth it will come down to who has the smallest collision bubble.