Author Topic: Milkrunning a dirty word?  (Read 717 times)

Offline JB42

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 558
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« on: December 05, 2002, 03:20:19 AM »
Going through some post this one reaccuring sentiment keeps popping up. The resentment of the so-called Milkrunner. What is a milkrunner? From what I gathered, it's a pilot who takes a bomber to an undefended target and bombs it. WELL DUH!!!

I may be off base here, but it was my idea that bombers weren't intended to go where the fighters are, but rather the interceptors go to where the bombers are. I amagine that every bomber pilot, real or simulated, dreams of a clear, unobstructed target with little or no resistance. They idea of labeling someone a milkrunner because they won't come bomb where you are waiting for them is silly.

A milkrunner is only a milkrunner if the opposing coutry lets them milkrun. ;)
" The only thing upping from the CV are lifejackets." - JB15

" Does this Pony make my butt look fat?" - JB11

" I'd rather shoot down 1 Spit in a 109 than 10 109s in a Spit." - JB42

Offline BNM

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 559
      • http://www.christian3x3.com/
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2002, 03:24:54 AM »
Don't go making sense, it doesn't apply here. Now be off with you swine...

Offline Sixpence

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5265
      • http://www.onpoi.net/ah/index.php
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2002, 03:25:36 AM »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2002, 03:35:50 AM »
Well said, JB42.

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2002, 03:44:22 AM »
It could be a couple of things.

Taking a bomber to where nobody is?  I don't believe that's really one of them.

Capturing the bases around a factory and doing nothing but consistantly bombing that factory to run up drop% is milkrunning IMO.

Taking an Il-2 or A-20 and attacking an undefended field is not milkrunning.  Taking those planes and attacking a field, then encountering defense, dying then moving to a different field that is totally undefended is milkrunning.

Bombers and attack aircraft tried to avoid enemy planes.  However, its commonly accepted that if the target had any value that there were enemy planes there.  In AH, that's not the case and people have a tendancy to use that to their advantage.

AKDejaVu

Offline Sixpence

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5265
      • http://www.onpoi.net/ah/index.php
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2002, 03:46:57 AM »
"My grandaddy always told me, "There are three things that'll put a good man down: Losin' a good woman, eatin' bad possum, or eatin' good possum."" - Holden McGroin

(and I still say he wasn't trying to spell possum!)

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2002, 03:59:20 AM »
It's more of a situational thing.

 Milkruns, or any other sort of strategical/tactical "dweebery"  themselves are almost impossible when arena numbers are equal. Milkruns aren't very likely when numbers are balanced, and since every country is in a simular situation, things like dive bombing Lancs, or massive Typhoon raids are usually less of a threat.

 However, once the numbers balance shifts to one side, milk-running, dive bombing Lancasters, massive Typhoon raids become a serious threat which the receiving end has no possible way to counter.

 While every pilot is tied to defending important areas in the lesser team, the larger team has a significant reserve of pilots who can be organized separately without having to risk faltering defenses. Thus they merrily go swarm an undefended field with multiple planes, and there's absolutely nothing the defenders can do about it. Alternative defense tactics such as temporary point defense, or goon hunting, fuel porking can maybe delay enemy onslaught for 15 minutes ~ 1 hour, but that's about all it can do.

 So what happens is, the pilots of the defending side who are already facing harsh odds, vicious and brutal battle near their position, get to see zillions of enemy dots moving to a friendly field at some backward, undefended sector, and grit their teeth in anger that they can't do anything to stop it.

 So in a dilemma, whether they should give up the most important strategic position which they are defending, and deploy pilots to defend a less important backward sector, or keep defending the position while the enemy swarms to milk-run every existing base in undefended sectors... people get frustrated, real frustrated.

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2002, 06:31:28 AM »
Numbers? bah.

There are maps where milkrunning is difficult because there are too few bases on the front and its difficult to find one undeffended.

On the larger more spread out maps... its totally possible by any country either with or without numbers.

And milkrunning factories is something a country that has already taken several enemy bases does.

AKDejaVu

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2002, 06:54:23 AM »
Lotta milkrunners in WW2...

What cracks me up is when somebody shoots you down and calls you a milkrunner.  How the hell is it a milkrun if I got shot down?

LOL

Tards

Offline AKDejaVu

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5049
      • http://www.dbstaines.com
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2002, 06:56:54 AM »
Not alot of pilots were shot down at one base and then decided to move to a different undefended base in WW2 funkedup.

AKDejaVu

Offline JB42

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 558
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2002, 07:26:51 AM »
By the nature of your post Kweesa, you make a case for "milkrunning". you make the practice a sound, startegic function. force enemies off main front to defend lesser important targets, thus lessening resistance at the afore mentioned front.

I would agree with the mention of downed pilots for real not getting the chance to "reup" and go somewhere else. It is true also that all missions had second, third and sometimes even more aux. targets in case of bad weather, heavy resistance, or if another preceding wave had successfully destroyed target.

As for the number imbalance topic, because my side has more numbers doesnt mean I should go looking to get killed. I don't complain about being out numbered, only what we do as a country when we are. If some guy is off bombing rear factories, I say have at it, one less guy to have to fight against where it counts.
" The only thing upping from the CV are lifejackets." - JB15

" Does this Pony make my butt look fat?" - JB11

" I'd rather shoot down 1 Spit in a 109 than 10 109s in a Spit." - JB42

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2002, 08:01:13 AM »
milkrunners are despised because they seem so.... cowardly.. I know guys with jb in front of their handle like to milkrun..  it makes for really crappy fights... The people who like to fight hate milkrunners... when you bother to attack the milkrunners they become either just plain runners or dead or... suicide bombers... none of these things instills a lot of respect... disgust is the common reaction.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's

Offline Kweassa

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6425
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2002, 08:31:21 AM »
Yes, "milk-running" is a totally valid tactic. Efficient and wise one, too.

 However, as I mentioned it's not something about the tactic itself that makes people mad. It's about certain situations when people have no way to stop it that makes people frustrated.

 People don't get mad when they spot a feeble milk-run attempt when the numbers are equal.

 When the sides are balanced, the more participants these "milk-run" missions have, the more the risk they take, because they take people out of front lines, away from immediate battle and deploy them somewhere else. The planners of such tactics have to risk losing air local superiority over the front lines to plan such attempts.

  Also, in such situations the defenses are pretty formiddable, too. Pilots can devote themselves to defense quickly, with quick response times, because they are not overstressed, tied up with A2A interceptions at the front lines.

 However, things become different when the balance is upset. There's no way of stopping huge hoardes of planes in either 12k or NOE raids inetended for milk-running. People just have to watch in dispair as the conga-line of red dots appear near a flashing field and totally obliterate the area.

 Thus, the frustration levels are a measure of not how dweebey  the TACTIC is, but a measure of how dweebey the SITUATION is.

 Take a close look. Nobody complains about milk-runs when numbers are equal. They can be easily stopped. People start complaining when the situation is very harsh for one certain side.

 It's about the context how that tactic is used, and the overall flawed conditions that contribute to the reason behind why such tactics are used.

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2002, 09:33:03 AM »
Lazs!
Quote
milkrunners are despised because they seem so.... cowardly.. I know guys with jb in front of their handle like to milkrun.. it makes for really crappy fights... The people who like to fight hate milkrunners... when you bother to attack the milkrunners they become either just plain runners or dead or... suicide bombers... none of these things instills a lot of respect... disgust is the common reaction.  
But, but, but... it's their $14.95/month... :D

Offline Turbot

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1122
Milkrunning a dirty word?
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2002, 09:45:09 AM »
Milkrunning is a state of mind.  I imagine fester landing that 40 kill sortie in the 262 yesterday was a milkrun to him.