Author Topic: Age of Sail Battles (Read 721 times)

Swager · « **on:** December 08, 2002, 05:23:24 PM »

Does anyone know of a good website that has description of battles fought by sailing ships in the 1600s and 1700s. Sea battles between the British and the French, of the sea battles between the British and the Spanish.

Thanks in advance!

poopster · « **Reply #1 on:** December 08, 2002, 05:47:55 PM »

Swager all my links are modeling sites, I'll ask on the board and get back to you. They have a bunch of nautical research guys specializing in that era on the BBS.

In the meantime, check out this site. Ships average 110" long by 80" tall.

http://www.modelsailingships.com/

Sure would be nice to have money

Give me a day or two and I'll see if I can get some answers.

Pongo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 08, 2002, 11:08:14 PM »

Dont look for web sites..Read Obriens books.

Hangtime · « **Reply #3 on:** December 08, 2002, 11:30:16 PM »

Aye... Captain John Aubrey and his cello playin coke freak doctor and spy, Stephen Maturin.

Seriously, Swager; get Patrick O'Brians books.. he uses detailed historicly accurate battles from the period... #6, The Fortune of War was especially good... HMS Java vs USS Constitution and HMS Shannon vs USS Chesapeake in this one.. not one broadside fired outta place.

I give you the joy of it.

streakeagle · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2002, 12:10:12 AM »

I have a book written by a former CO of the USS Constitution. He used the logs and other historical documents to cover the history of that ship in as much detail as possible from its building to the present. The logs have some funny things in it. Seems like every time they stopped at an island, several sailors went AWOL. They lost a lot of sailors to accidents (falling from the masts) and disease. They also beat the crap out of their men. Some of the maneuvers and tricks they performed in combat and escapes were not unlike Captain Kirk Star Trek stunts.

I would love to see a fairly accurate movie/mini-series on Preble's boys from Tripoli to the War of 1812. Some of our country's greatest heros are only known to a handful of naval history buffs.

I love the British standing order for all frigates to avoid engaging American frigates 1 on 1

It was a shame that the British captured the best one of the bunch, the President. It was faster and handled better than the Constitution or the United States. As it is, after having built two models of the Constitution and reading everything I could find (starting in the 5th grade), I finally walked her decks on July 4, 1997. What an awesome ship.

Pongo · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2002, 01:08:53 AM »

It would be like a standing order telling light cruisers not to engage heavy cruisers one on one.. They were very big for "frigates" and they were well fought.

poopster · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2002, 07:26:53 PM »

Swager, no websites but some recommendations from the editer of Ships in Scale magazine. Hope this helps.

"Naval Warfare in the Age of Sail" by Brian Tunstall,
published by Conway (1990), ISBN 1-55750-601-9. Also available in used book
stores is "Sea Battles, a reference guide" by Michael Sanderson, published by
David & Charles (1975), ISBN 0-7153-6648-3.

Bonden · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2002, 07:53:32 PM »

Avast there and Beat to Quarters!!!. OBrien's books are a very good read. An alternative and just (in a different way) as enjoyable are the series by Dewey Lambdin. You will learn circumstances under which people are described as "biting the furniture"

Good reads all

Hangtime · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2002, 12:56:48 AM »

The Royal Navy's frigates were essentially unbeaten in any similar ship action for more than 20 years. RN frigates averaged about 130ft in length, toted anywhere from 28 to 36 guns firing 18lb ball or chain. Despite the immense weight of her guns (each cannon weighed about 2.5 tons plus TWICE this weight in shot and powder for each one) they were swift and able to beat upwind.. fast, nimble, and they packed a heluva wallop..

The Americans upped the ante on their frigates.. they carried 44 guns, 24lbders too boot. Not quite as fast or nimble, they were nonetheless very good sea boats, and they expected to be able to carry the fight if not by weight of broadside then certainly by boarding since they also enjoyed a significantly superior force of numbers in crew.. the American frigates generally carried just under 400 men to a RN frigates 250-300.

The USN kicked some bellybutton at first, taking 3 or 4 British frigates.. and when Constitution ran up against Java the fight went for 6 hours, ending with Java having all three of her masts shot away, but still fighting strong. Constitution was also horribly mauled and when the ships were seperated by a brief squall both fell to jury rigging repairs.. Java got a single mast up, but was unable to manuver.. Constitution was in much better shape in terms of her rigging and was able to manuver. When the British Captain saw the Constitution range across the crippled Java's bows, and prepare to rake her, he struck her colors.

The British were pissed. Hugely. The 'American Station' recieved some sharp attention from the Admirality, some crack frigates with worked up crews and experinced fighting Captains were pulled off the French Stations and sent over here to hunt the big American frigates. Next time the Brits met the USN it was Shannon.. 38 18lbders vs Chesepeake.. the newest American 44 Gun Super Frigate w/ 24lbers. Shannon was on the last day of her blockade of Boston Harbor and invited Chesepeake out to play.. assuring her skipper of a fair fight, unhindered or assisted by any other British ship. No toejam. 'C'mon out here and lets see what yah got!'

The Chesepeake accepted the challenge and she came out... and Shannon kicked her bellybutton in 15 furious minutes flat. The Americans won no more Frigate duels with the RN. In fact, after that, it was 'game over' for the USN.

Hangtime · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2002, 10:15:10 AM »

Yup.. when Chespeake came out, she came out with a very large number of 'sightseeing' boats, yachts, tenders; vessels of every description. All loaded with folks that wanted to see the Yankees kick some more limey butt.

The Shannon lead her a safe distance from shore, and luffed up; waiting for the Chesepeke to come down to her. Chesepeke held all the advantages.. weather guage, weight of iorn, crew numbers, fresh ship with a clean bottom, fresh spars and cordage, warm well fed crew.

Shannon let Chesepeake range along side.. and with Shannon laying 3 broadsides to the Chespeakes one, with Shannons hideously accurate fire and attention to manuver (she whipped 3 incredibly fast broadsides into Chesepeake, ranged alongside, lashed fast and boarded) Yep.. as always, it's the men; not the machines.

Pongo · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2002, 10:21:07 AM »

Had the Chesapeak had sea time to get her crew more experiance in naval gunnery she would have done better too.
Same problem the French often had. supperior ships with crews with no sea time. The French expected the Brits to waste away on blockade but it was the french seamanship that mealted away.

The Brits record of victory during that period is increadable. Thats why it reads like fiction.