Author Topic: "I've still got a bullet in my leg" - Client (Read 1825 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 10, 2002, 02:56:52 PM »

yeah... MT... kinda like the whole liberal view on things eh?

Remind me to check in on ya in about 10years... you're a fairly bright lad.. can't see ya not getting it much longer.
lazs

miko2d · « **Reply #16 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:04:30 PM »

midnight Target: Factor in economics and race makes no difference.

Unless race determines economics as well as violent tendencies. You cannot assign cause and effect arbitrarily.

Being poor does not make you noticeably more dumb or senslessly violent.
Being dumb makes you much more likely to be both poor and senslessly violent.

miko

midnight Target · « **Reply #17 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:06:23 PM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
yeah... MT... kinda like the whole liberal view on things eh?

Remind me to check in on ya in about 10years... you're a fairly bright lad.. can't see ya not getting it much longer.
lazs

Funny Lazs, maybe when you're my age you will get it.

midnight Target · « **Reply #18 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:14:32 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d

--snip---. You cannot assign cause and effect arbitrarily. ---snip---
miko

So it would be wrong to call it "African American Gun Crime" wouldn't it. The descriptive adjective could read "Poor American" or "Disenfranchised American" or .. you fill in the blank.

Dune · « **Reply #19 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:21:02 PM »

I suscribe to a BBS for hunting and there are many members who hunt in Africa. One of them posted this story:

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From News 24 in South Africa.

26/NOV/2002 22:22 - (SA)

Raped tourist: I was paraded as 'white flesh'

Sonette Lombaard

Pretoria - For more than 14 hours a young British tourist was hauled from one shebeen to the other and shown off as "white flesh", before being raped by one of the kidnappers who was "dirty and revolting and smelled horribly of beer".

Julie Stevens (29) told the British newspaper The Mail on Sunday about her and her friend Tinus Opperman's (25) nightmare experience earlier this month when five men overpowered them at the scenic Long Tom pass in Mpumalanga.

They were held for 14 hours, during which Opperman was stabbed with a knife and she was beaten and raped.

When a Mozambican driver stopped to help them after the drunk kidnappers had overturned the car in which they were travelling, he was shot dead.

Stevens is still recovering in Mpumalanga, but decided to tell her story to "get back" at the criminals. She will only know in three months' time if the antiretrovirals she took did protect her against HIV.

Stevens worked in a Newport office in southern Wales before she and Opperman decided to visit South Africa for a working holiday. She was very excited about it.

They were staying with Opperman's parents in Sabie and went for a drive to a look-out post in the scenic Long Tom pass.

"I got out first and stood at the edge looking out over the mountains. Suddenly five men appeared from behind the rocks. They pointed a gun at Tinus, demanded money and took our sunglasses and watches," she recalled.

Opperman realised they were in grave danger and hoped the attackers would settle for the car. But the men tied their hands behind their backs with a long leather belt. When other vehicles drove past, the couple was pushed over the side so that they would not be seen.

When the motorists had passed, the couple were hauled up and pushed into the vehicle and forced to crouch behind the front seats.

The attackers raced from one petrol station to another where the men tried to draw money with the couple's credit cards.

The men were disorganised. They cursed and yelled and were furious because they were unable to draw money. They kept the gun against Opperman's head, saying "they had murdered in the past, and they would do so again".

Stevens kept praying quietly that she would not be killed or raped. Throughout the night they were driven from one shebeen to the other in various townships, where they were shown off as "white flesh" to the attackers' friends and family.

Their pleas for help fell on deaf ears.

The attackers were drinking heavily. At one shebeen they left Stevens and Opperman in the car. After a while one of them returned and drove to a deserted alley.

"I then knew I was going to be raped."

She was crying when he pulled her onto the backseat. When she resisted, he hit her.

"He was dirty and revolting and smelled horribly of beer. It was quickly over. I passed out."

He drove back to the shebeen, where he again left them in the car.

But he returned to rape her a second time.

By that time she had managed to free one hand. She hit him with a beer bottle. It enraged him, and he hit her again, this time much harder.

After a while the four others drunkenly returned to the car and they drove off along the road between Badplaas and Barberton. The driver barely managed to keep the vehicle on the road.

At 04:30 the car overturned and landed on its roof in a ditch. Opperman was hurled through the window, cutting his back. He later had to receive 100 stitches. Stevens was also hurled out of the car by the impact.

A passer-by stopped and approached. Stevens whispered a warning that he should leave because the men were armed. She and Opperman managed to run away.

They heard a shot and realised that they had shot the man, killing him in an attempt to rob him of his vehicle.

Stevens said she was sharing her story because she hoped it would make her feel less isolated, not just another statistic.

She said she didn't want to hate South Africa or black people, because "there are reasons why people become hardened criminals.

"We were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I thank God that we are alive".

Hortlund · « **Reply #20 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:25:23 PM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
So it would be wrong to call it "African American Gun Crime" wouldn't it. The descriptive adjective could read "Poor American" or "Disenfranchised American" or .. you fill in the blank.

Are there black americans committing crimes at all MT? Or is that just one big racist lie?

H. Godwineson · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:29:30 PM »

It takes a great stretch of the imagination to compare gang violence in the U.S. to tribal warfare in Africa. One is an order of magnitude, or two, greater than the other.

Shuckins

midnight Target · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2002, 03:55:53 PM »

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Originally posted by Hortlund
Are there black americans committing crimes at all MT? Or is that just one big racist lie?

Did I say there weren't?

Gang warfare has existed in American Cities since the dawn of the industrial revolution, maybe even before. Gangs have been Irish, Italian, Jewish, Puerto Rican, Skin Head, Black, Jamaican, etc.

They tend to be made up of the poorest people at the time. Blacks happen to be the poorest today, with Hispanics a close second. I wonder where the crime rates will be highest?

Saying we have an African American crime problem today is no different than saying there was an Irish crime problem in the 1910's, or an Italian crime problem in the 1920's, or a Jewish crime problem in the 1930's.

We had a crime problem with the poor, and still do. Assigning a racial descriptor on the issue as a whole does no one any good and tends to focus the blame onto a large group of people who are mostly good and law abiding.

Hortlund · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2002, 04:03:49 PM »

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Originally posted by midnight Target
Did I say there weren't?

Well, to be perfectly honest it looked as if you were trying to. With the "it is wrong to call it african american gun crime, instead you should say poor american gun crimes"-ramblings I mean.

SKurj · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2002, 07:18:49 PM »

Worked with a guy from South Africa briefly this past summer.. he told stories of kids running around with AK's(his words). They didn't always have any ammo, but you never knew..

From what he told me, mercenary types are often hired to hunt these kids down.. sounded like it wasn't a case of dead or alive either... just dead...

SKurj

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #25 on:** December 10, 2002, 07:27:37 PM »

Curval you have interesting clients, what kind of business are you in?

Curval · « **Reply #26 on:** December 10, 2002, 07:47:41 PM »

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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Curval you have interesting clients, what kind of business are you in?

I manage their businesses and advise on the structure of their companies. I also do the accounting work and liase with auditors etc.

Thrawn · « **Reply #27 on:** December 10, 2002, 08:01:11 PM »

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Originally posted by Curval
I manage their businesses and advise on the structure of their companies. I also do the accounting work and liase with auditors etc.

Sound like a cover story for a double-0 agent!

Let me guess when in Russia you're a "Cultural Liason".

I'm on to you spy boy, living in and visiting exotic locations indeed. "Clients" with strange bullet wounds??

Curval · « **Reply #28 on:** December 10, 2002, 08:54:59 PM »

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Originally posted by Thrawn
Sound like a cover story for a double-0 agent!

LOL..you have me confused with Animal.

davidpt40 · « **Reply #29 on:** December 11, 2002, 05:40:31 AM »

The criminals in africa are nuts compared to Western civilized nations. Uneducated, poor, and unwilling to abide by the law, the only real way to get rid of the criminals is to kill them.

Remember when the U.S. stopped the famine in Somalia? And how all the food shipments kept getting hijacked? Then when Army Rangers started engaging and 'neutralizing' the warlord members who were hijacking the food shipments, thousands of somalis began shooting at the Rangers.

Africa can be a rough place.