Will there be otto?

[Topcat]

Just wondering if there will be Otto in the buffs?  I'd certainly like to see it remain.  Also, joining to gun in flight would be great.

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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels

[Audie]

A previous thread discussed this quite well... my preference would be for NO otto but the ability to add gunners IN FLIGHT.

Therefore no need for gunners to have to sign up for 30 minutes climb/cruise only to have an A8 shred a wing in 3 seconds..  near nme or much closer to nme territory just make the call for gunners and i bet you would get some quite easily on that basis.

An alternative would be otto if you start from ground but NO otto if given an air start.

Will be interesting.....

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Audie
The dweeb formerly known as -audi-

[Topcat]

Ah!  Sorry, I missed the earlier thread.  Did Pyro reply, and if so, what did he say?  Geez, I sure wish someone was collecting all these gems of info and putting them in one place!

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Topcat
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
With Fists and Heels

[Audie]

Some further thoughts..

I could live with OTTO if;

1. OTTO had G-effects or roll/pitch angle effects.. no more firing at me when a B25 or B17 plane is rolled 90 degrees. Plus a 10-20 second OTTO "disablement" break after radical manoeuvres such as this.

2. OTTO stopped firing when plane was going to crash.. such as a lost wing or elev.. at the moment some buffers ride the plane down to the ground with OTTO blaring and then bail at say 1000ft and live and often taking down some fighters during the death spiral.. not very realistic that.. make OTTO more likely to "bail" before the player who "games it" bails

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Audie
The dweeb formerly known as -audi-

[Brazos]

Sorry,

I'd rather not see otto. It's an open invitation to ack-staring. No matter how it is modeled, some will find a way to abuse it. Also by manning the guns with players, you get that great crew feeling. True, you could take a fully manned buff to death-star, but your removing 6-8 pilots from your countries roster. Seems like the only fair way imo.

[Audie]

Fair point brazos...

This could be 'easily' [non-programmer speak] fixed by having alt/range [say 5000ft alt and 2 miles range] from nearest friendly field limits put on both otto and perhaps even human gun positions also.

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Audie VF-17 The Jolly Rogers 8X in WB
The dweeb formerly known as -audi-

[nastee]

I would like to see otto when only one person in bomber and he's getting ready to drop his load. There's nothing more frustrating than line up on your target and have to jump out to defend your ship.
~Nastee~

[Ivedog]

How about the standard otto, but have them be lousy shots.  They'll gain "experience" if you bring them back home alive.  Each successive mission you survive, their aim gets better.

Ivedog

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Fly with The Volunteers!

[This message has been edited by Ivedog (edited 08-02-1999).]

[GunsGG]

Ivedog, I agree with you.  Seems everyone wants to change otto, except the ones who fly bombers.

  When a bail from a b17 is ordered, otto should shut off as a string of chutes blossum behind.

I would like to see TRADABLE gunners, who not only gain in experience, but could be traded for a favor.....I'll swap top gunners with you if you fly this formation, etc.

  To keep a gunner from getting TOO good, they get sent home at the end of twenty-five missions!

You would never see a bomber captain risk a trained crew again.    

edited for spelling----sorry

[This message has been edited by GunsGG (edited 08-02-1999).]

[Audie]

All good points again...

On the OTTO "bail" point tho I would like to se OTTO bailing before many buffers "bail" now... to stop the "gaming" by riding the plane until min bail height with the objective of OTTO kills despite plane being wingless etc...but I guess it would be too hard to do..   maybe not?

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Audie VF-17 The Jolly Rogers 8X in WB
The dweeb formerly known as -audi-



[This message has been edited by Audie (edited 08-03-1999).]

[Luckie]

GunsGG has a good solution there. when you lose the plane, you lose the gunners, and new otto gunners suck. that would be a strong dis-incentive for ackstarring.
but let the gunners gain experience fairly quickly based on time rather than sorties ( basing it on sorties encourages taxi-sorties ). that way the bomber pilot could have OK ( not good )gunners by the time he reaches the combat zone even if he was shot down last time ( unless he's ackstarring of course, those new otto gunners REALLY REALLY suck during the first 2 minutes or so....).
-luckie

[GunsGG]

I wouldn't tone it back a bit Luckie.  There are many missions we in the 450th fly where we never come in contact with enemy fighters at all.
  And if a sortie involves cycling the landing gear, very few people are going to take the time to game the game just so they can ackstar.
  If I am in a brand new bomber, my gunners may suck, but the rest of the bombers in the box may have crack shots...this uncertainty would add a lot of spice to an interceptors soup.

[kkoori]

In regards to the bailing out of your buff's 'otto gunners' I would like to see the old "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" style where there would be a trail of chutes of other crewmen.

It was cool counting how many of your crew got out.  Of course, the number bailing successfully is totally dependant on how many were not KIA or seriously WIA.  

For example, if you lose a wing and no otto's are hurt full complement of crew bail.  If you take a hammering and you lose tail gunner, and both waist gunners then you are down to 7 chutes and not 10 etc.

Small but cool option, maybe it'll be done, more than likely it won't.  


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P/O kkoori
75 Squadron RAAF Australia
http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/bunker/6545

[eric]

GunsGG you had some real good thinking there.. I think it would be cool if bomber pilots get different ranks and you can trade off gunners...Or they get leaves, and yea after 25 missions all the pilots in the england scenario got to go home.. just to be shipped off to the asian frontier..  And this way.. fighters would attack a b17 not knowing if they have dead eye gunners or first mission flyers.. and I do agree with the time flyer..maybe in the scores section they can show the TOTAL Hours a pilot has flown ??  So if someone has like 0.06 hours flown (6 min) and their gunners are crack shots.. then something is wrong, heh.
Just my 2 cents... And i like the idea of gunners bailing as the plane is on fire.. then make all the gunners and you shoot the plane with your .45 cal side arms