Ostwind Data

[BUG_EAF322]

More important looking at the photo that gun could never fire 90 degrees straight up.

??????????????????

[BUG_EAF322]

Dammit!!

[BUG_EAF322]

Still i have hope gunners would not be able to shoot straight up, because he wouldn't be able to aim through his sights.

anyone maybe know??

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by Shiva
This performance is for the Panzergranate 18 shell, not the Sprenggranate 18 shell. The penetration tables are for AP solid-shot rounds, not the high-explosive shells that the Ostwind is firing in the game.

Not quite. As with all German AP shells of 20+mm except for the tungsten-cored PzGr 40 and 41, there was a cavity in the shot which was filled with HE (or sometimes incendiary material) and initiated by a base fuze.

In the case of the 37mm AP, this was 13g of Nitropenta. Not a lot, but a bit more than the 20mm Hispano HE.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[Turbot]

Even with the AP ammo, Ostwinds don't have especially good penetration numbers.  

http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/germany/guns.html

3.7cm FlaK 43 L/89
ammo PzGr18
ammo wieght lbs 1.4
Velocity 2,526'/s
100 meters 35mm penetration
500 meters 28mm
1000 meters 21mm
1500 meters 17mm

Yes these numbers are 30 degrees, they do that of course because most armor is angled.

panzer IV armor mm/angle:
Front Turret: 50/11
Front Upper Hull: 50 or 50+30/10
Front Lower Hull: 50 or 50+30/12
Side Turret: 30/26
Side Upper Hull: 30/0
Side Lower Hull: 30/0
Rear Turret: 30/10
Rear Upper Hull: 20/12
Rear Lower Hull: 20/9
Turret Top / Bottom: 10/83
Upper Hull Top / Bottom: 12/85
Lower Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 50/0

even against another ostwind:

ostwind armor mm/angle:
Front Turret: 25/37
Front Superstructure: 80/10
Front Hull: 80/12
Side Turret: 25/30
Side Superstructure: 30/0
Side Hull: 30/0
Rear Turret: 25/30
Rear Superstructure: 20/11
Rear Hull: 20/9
Turret Top / Bottom: open
Superstructure Top / Bottom: 12/85-90
Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Gun Mantlet: 25/round

There are weak spots, but should be no easy armor kills for the ostwind here, even at close range.  (Even with the mythical ammo load we have.)   I think we are using HE ammo in AH - I say this because when I go to shoot at guns, close hits seem to do the job (i.e. you don't have to hit directly).   As such HE ammo penetration - numbers I don;t have or looked for yet - will be much worse than AP figures at the top of this post.

Long and the short of it is, I feel Ostwinds are too powerful as an anti-armor platform.  If somethign is in the gun range of the Ostwind as is, that something dies.  This is odd for an anti-aircraft platform. (Only thing that saves some tanks now is being able to engage from greater distance.)

[Tony Williams]

I'm still puzzled by the penetration figures. The 20mm Flak could punch through about 40mm at short range, and the 37mm was considerably more powerful. The figures I have for the 37mm APHE are about 50 mm / 500 m / 90º or 40 mm at 60º. This is reasonable as the ammo was slightly more powerful than the 37mm PaK which could penetrate 48mm/500m/90 degrees.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[brady]

Even a slight slope can dramaticaly effect AP value, a slope of 30degreas may not seam like much but it has a substantial effect on pentration, the flat armored sides of the Panzer would make it easy meat for the Osty's gun at reasionable ranges, not to mention the rear plate.

 IMO it is most likely a game play conshion that the osty's AP value is being reduced in the game, I always fet it was prety much bang on.

[hazed-]

i think the reduction in its penetrating ability is probably due to some new evidence that has changed htc's mind , purely because they wont change anything else without reems of info.

Then again maybe they are trying to make players use panzers,tigers and shermans to do the vehicle to vehicle fighting whilst ostwinds and m16s are left to AA duties.

I would imagine on a REAL battle field the AA guns are immediately ordered to retreat when tanks with 75mm appear over the horizon.Surely the AA tanks are there for a good reason, to stop aircraft. they were placed around key positions to protect from air attack so why would they risk them in a headlong dash at an enemy tank? I think personally that wouldnt have happened.

As to whether they loaded AP rounds i would have thought they would have wanted HE rather than AP for the reason HE works better against aircraft (their primary targets). Perhaps a few rounds for that emergency? who knows?

me? im glad its being changed and i hope its because of new evidence rather than a gameplay concession but as im getting a bit tired of dieing in a panzer to ostwinds that take a 75mm shell hit and still fire at me unharmed, I would think that wouldnt I

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by brady
Even a slight slope can dramaticaly effect AP value, a slope of 30degreas may not seam like much but it has a substantial effect on pentration, the flat armored sides of the Panzer would make it easy meat for the Osty's gun at reasionable ranges, not to mention the rear plate.

True, but as I pointed out, even when striking at that angle, the AP shell of the FlaK gun should have penetrated around 40mm/500m, which is way better than the source quoted in earlier posts.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

[Tony Williams]

Originally posted by hazed-
As to whether they loaded AP rounds i would have thought they would have wanted HE rather than AP for the reason HE works better against aircraft (their primary targets). Perhaps a few rounds for that emergency?

That would, I believe, be normal practice for any AA gun operating in the front line. It was for the British Bofors, for example.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum