Obesity

[krazyhorse]

Ahhh, lil fat kids running around in ours schools,or should i say lack off running. when as a child  I had a relatively good phys ed class, ya know dodge ball,basketball, flag football,baseball  all during gym class, my kids gym class well sucks, no dodge ball, the fat kids feelings might get hurt when he gets put out onthe 1st throw, no basketball ,it's to strenuos and might cause some children to have anxiety attacks, no flagfootball the sides are unfairly picked by the children and the one chosen last will get their feelings hurt, no baseball, it has been replaced with wiffle ball, so that the children do not get hurt by a real baseball, and now my son tells me that in gym class they have an option to partipate in atheletic type activities or play BOARD GAMES as part of phys ed class..EXCUSE ME what a crock of toejam this is. Now after school only a few participate in any sports (my son is in 7th grade and lettered this year in High School cross country) most go home pick up their game pad  and turn on the playstaion-xbox-gamecube etc, then proceed to get stuffed by their mommy at supper time:eek:                                                                       bendover big boy,let me hear ya squeal like a pig  soooouuuuueeeee

[Thrawn]

Seems like a vicous cycle.  Schools don't have enought money for Phys Ed and the like.  Schools team up with fast food chains and soda companies for corporate sponsorship, kids eat nothing but crap at school.

And the cycle is difficult to break because parents don't want to pay more taxes.

[Ripsnort]

Originally posted by Thrawn


And the cycle is difficult to break because parents don't want to pay more taxes.

Parents are willing to spend more on taxes as soon as there is accountability for the ones already spent.  Unfortunately, the politicians at our local levels have yet to figure this out..."You mean you want us audited! How dare you question how we spend your money!"

Sorta related but..Did anyone catch that story in I believe LA where the Police Athletics Council (non-profit org for setting up athletic programs for under-privledged children in poorer neighborhoods) recently raised 150 million dollars, only to have $100,000 of it spent on youth programs?  Man, I'm in the wrong business!

[ra]

Schools aren't to blame for kids getting fat, they are to blame for kids being dumb as rocks.  School food has never been very healthful, and the fast food kids eat in school now is no worse.  Most of the food kids eat they eat away from school.  Parents need to take more control of what their kids eat, and find a way to get the kids away from the TV/computer/gamebox/VCR/stereo/mall, and get them outdoors running around like nature intended.  This is becoming just another excuse to blame evil corporations for all the world's problems.

Also, there are lots of behaviors which lead to higher medical bills, should we start 'doing something' about those too?

ra

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Because of fat fatties MickeyD's no longer uses the same frying oil they did ~5-6 years ago.

Back then, the fries were the only reason to eat at MickeyDs.

I no longer eat there.. why can't I have a high cholesteral, high fat option if these fatties can sustain themselves solely on MickeyDs and then protest because they keep getting fatter and then get the oil changed to low fat, low cholesterol?!

Fat people are ruining fast food!!!! And dumb people make the coffee cold!!!!
-SW

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by ra
Schools aren't to blame for kids getting fat, they are to blame for kids being dumb as rocks.  School food has never been very healthful, and the fast food kids eat in school now is no worse.  

What makes you think that the food is not worse?

Parents need to take more control of what their kids eat, and find a way to get the kids away from the TV/computer/gamebox/VCR/stereo/mall, and get them outdoors running around like nature intended.  This is becoming just another excuse to blame evil corporations for all the world's problems.

I agree that parents should be doing more to get their kids away from mass media.  But how can a parent combat corportations that can spend millions on market research to determine exactly how to market to their children.  And can then afford to spend billions on marketing to those children, even in there schools.  And the reason why they do it is because it works.

Cripes I remember when I was a kid I would go to a movie and the only think they play before the feature was the national anthem.  Now there's a toejamload of ads before the movie and there's a toejamload of ads IN the movie.

These corporations are trying to deminish parental authority, they are trying to use scientific marketing, peer pressure, and vast financial resourses to get your child to maniopulate you.  They have actually done a study on the 7 different ways a kid nags his parents.   And use this information to help design their ad campaigns.  There are serval marketing industry journals dedicate to marketing to your child.

Ideally, parents would do a better job and be better informed on how their child is being manipulated.  Ideally parents would be more knowledgable about diet and what there kid is sticking in there face.  But that's just not the case.

In reality it's a growing problem that needs a real solution.  Do I think multinationals are evil?  Maybe.  I do know that they only have their stockholders interests at heart, not society's, not mine, and certainly not my childs.

Sweden has come up with one solution, they have made the practice of marking to children eight years old and younger illegal.

Also, there are lots of behaviors which lead to higher medical bills, should we start 'doing something' about those too?

Which behaviours do you have in mind?

[Ripsnort]

I'm guessing he meant things such as over-drinking, smoking, drugs, etc. Did you know that Harborview here in Seattle (Level 1 Trauma center for the State of Wa) has a medical bill for a homeless drug addict thats been revived 6 times in 14 months, for $1,500,000?  Guess who flips for that bill due to the "Good Samaritan" law?

[ra]

What makes you think that the food is not worse?

What makes you think the food is worse?   I grew up eating lunch in US public schools.  The typical meal was 'pizza', tater tots, some sort of watery vegatable, and something sweet like apple sauce.  The contents did not differ from a cheeseburger and fries, except for the watery vegatable.  

But how can a parent combat corportations that can spend millions on market research ...

Were corporations less evil 30 years ago?  Parents spend more money on their kids now, that's where corporations get those millions to spend on research.  Parents' fault.  Not all kids are overweight or physically inactive.

Sweden has come up with one solution, they have made the practice of marking to children eight years old and younger illegal.

Sweden has a solution for everything.  How do they know whether a marketing campaign is targeted at nine year olds or eight year olds?   Sounds like another useless feelgood bureaucratic law passed by people with too much faith in social 'science'.

Which behaviours do you have in mind?

Drinking, riding motorcycles, sexual promiscuity, hang gliding, sun bathing, lack of exercise, the list goes on.  Lots of behaviors can increase one's likelyhood of serious injury or disease.  Trying to homogenize health risks has an Orwellian flavor to it.  And why stop with health?  Other behaviors can make someone a burden to society.  Gambling, for instance, can be addictive, it causes people to go bankrupt, and big corporations make lots of money from it.  

Here in the US we allowed the lawyer industry rape the tobacco industry, and society recieve absolutely no benefit from it.  The idea of personal responsibility should not be overthrown so easily.  The best way to stop kids getting fat is to let them play outdoors, no social science is required.

ra

[lazs2]

sheesh... Why do kids even need to have lunch served to em at school?   The catholic school I went to didn't even have a cafeteria.   Bring a lunch or starve... If a kid stats looking malnurished then for gawds sake take em away from the worthless parents... if they6 would starve a kid what else are they doing?

busybody libs... seat belts, helmets... sheesh... yeah that'l save money... any of you guys paying less for medical insurance?   Hell no... the longer people live.... the more medical bills they make.  

rip... don't fall for that ol.. "u need to ban/control this or that because it is affecting your pocket and you don't use/care about this that anyway" crap... Why do you think the lefties are so in favor of it?  just more chance to get the government into your life.   You won't save a dime on the insurace... they will just spend whatever they save (if anything) on some poor homelss man who can't get his drug dose figured out  or the dimwit who woulda ate himself to death is now a heart transplant/ lung/liver transplant long term cancer patient...  we all die and most of us need extremely expensive medical care before it is over.  

Oh... I just heard that they are gonna not allow snowbaorders or skiiers on the slopes without a helmet... as if them ski pants and funny hats weren't humiliating enough.... If it weren't so sad it would be hilarious.   Drink your cold coffee and eat your dry tofu french fries ...  serves ya right.
lazs

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by ra
What makes you think the food is worse?

Regan almost destroyed any sort of regualtion in the beef industry.  Clinton was able to bring some of it back.  For awhile in the 90's the meat in hamburgers in schools was less safe then that in pet food.  One of the first things Dubya tried to do when he got in office was to practically destroy any viablitity the USDA had in actually regulating the raising and slaughter of beef.

One of the provisors that the large soda companies include in corporate sponsor ship for schools is quotas.  The school has to get the students to drink a huge quantity of pop in order to recieve sponsorship funds.

Were corporations less evil 30 years ago?

Not sure if they where less evil, but they certainly not nearly as large and powerful.  Not the soda companies or fast food chains.  MacDonalds has only been around for about 40 years.

 

Parents spend more money on their kids now, that's where corporations get those millions to spend on research.  Parents' fault.  Not all kids are overweight or physically inactive.

I agree that at then end of the day it is the parents responsibity to raise their kids and make sure that their kids are healthy and informed.  Some apparently can't or won't, do this.
 

Sweden has a solution for everything.  How do they know whether a marketing campaign is targeted at nine year olds or eight year olds?   Sounds like another useless feelgood bureaucratic law passed by people with too much faith in social 'science'.

This is the same social science that fast food chains and soda companies use to market to children.  Marketing to children is well documented field of marketing.  Easy way to decided if commercial is marketed to children, look for the tools and strategies that companies us to market to children.
 
I agree that personal responsibility is important.  And if someone understands the dangers of legal activity and still decide to go ahead with it, then so be it.  That is why for this thread I'm concentrating on obesity when it comes to children.

The best way to stop kids getting fat is to let them play outdoors, no social science is required.

ra

That's not aways true.  What if the child lives in a depressed urbane environment?  The proper placement of parks, green spaces and playgrounds is very much an area that lies within the social sciences.  

Some urban areas only have a couple of basketball courts paid for my Nike.  Not an optimum enviroment for a child to play outdoors in.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh... Why do kids even need to have lunch served to em at school?   The catholic school I went to didn't even have a cafeteria.   Bring a lunch or starve... If a kid stats looking malnurished then for gawds sake take em away from the worthless parents... if they6 would starve a kid what else are they doing?

The cafeteria lunch IS the best meal some kids get.  And exactly what is social services supposed do with all these kids.  Have you taken any in?  How the hell is a malnourished child suppose to learn effectively, how can they break cycle, if they don't have a chance at an decent education?

Drink your cold coffee and eat your dry tofu french fries ...  serves ya right.
lazs

Make that Fair Trade coffee, free range beef and organic potatos.  

[AKS\/\/ulfe]

Kids that live in ghettos find out ways to have fun outdoors.... there's plenty of things for a kid to do in most urban areas... even "depressed ones"...

I've been thru several areas where the richest person in the neighborhood was more than likely the crack dealer....

Yet there was an abundance of school playgrounds, basketball courts and baseball fields...

The parents need to get their kids active and feed them right... it's not for the lack of outdoor activities, it's the lack of intelligent parenting...

And tell me this.... what good does marketting to an 8 or 9 year old do if the kid ain't got no money?
-SW

[ra]

Regan almost destroyed any sort of regualtion in the beef industry.

By what measurement is beef worse than before Reagan, and how does that contribute to obesity?

The school has to get the students to drink a huge quantity of pop in order to recieve sponsorship funds.

So it's the schools fault.  Just shows you can't trust government.

Easy way to decided if commercial is marketed to children, look for the tools and strategies that companies us to market to children.

Maybe my question was unclear.  Sweden says you can't target commercials to 8 year olds, but is OK to target them to 9 year olds.  How do the bureaucrats tell if a commercial is directed at 9 year olds and not at 8 year olds?  Social alchemy.

Some urban areas only have a couple of basketball courts paid for my Nike. Not an optimum enviroment for a child to play outdoors in.

Most urban areas suck for kids, and a lot of suburban areas suck  for kids.  That's always been the case, so it doesn't explain the lack of physical activity which has led to this generation of porkers.

ra

[lazs2]

Yeah... I'm willing to pay for orhanages for kids whose parents don't have enough brains to feed em.   I got no problem with that...  If the only decent meal kids get is at school then we need to arrest the parents and put the kids in orphanges..  i don't mind paying.. u allways pay eventually anyway...

LOL.. first it was "we gotta feed em at school because that is the only good meal the kids get" bull and now it's... "the meals schools serve aren't good enough".... I got an idea... how bout the schools teach the kids and call it a day?  how bout we all get vouchers to send our kids to whatever school we want?   This crap about school being tghe parent substitute is getting a little overboard.

The whole thing is... the schools here are government run... which means that they can barely teach above a moron level when they are at their very best... now you want em to be in the feeding kids bussiness?  They can't competer with private schools with a third their budget and you want em to compete with resteraunts or even bag lunches?   Naa... compete is too strong a word for those socialists..  they wouldn't know competition if it bit em in the butt.    Hopefully... it will someday soon.
lazs

[krazyhorse]

MOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!   eat beef