Author Topic: "I've still got a bullet in my leg" - Client  (Read 1830 times)

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #75 on: December 13, 2002, 03:59:31 PM »
Just for starters, and I don't want you to think I am ignoring the book you just posted...

I will pass on to my son that the discrimination he has experienced is really the White mans gift to him. I'll have him send a card.

:rolleyes: <--- not enough of these in the world.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #76 on: December 13, 2002, 04:00:15 PM »
"social intervention"  yikes...    MT... I think if you see discrimination every day then you are seeing things that your mind cojurs up... I also say that I bet negroes like me better than they like you.  They told me that they think you are a wuss.

but... all that asside.... rhythm.....  black people more than white?
lazs

Offline Wlfgng

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« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2002, 04:03:31 PM »
yes

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2002, 04:07:59 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
"social intervention"  yikes...    MT... I think if you see discrimination every day then you are seeing things that your mind cojurs up... I also say that I bet negroes like me better than they like you.  They told me that they think you are a wuss.

but... all that asside.... rhythm.....  black people more than white?
lazs


:)

I gotta admit Lazs, you are one funny honky.


Rhythm? More? I prefer to think it's just a different rhythm.

I can't get into East Coast rap, and my sons just don't understand Led Zepplin..   go figure?

Offline midnight Target

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Offline miko2d

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« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2002, 04:26:51 PM »
midnight Target: I will pass on to my son that the discrimination he has experienced is really the White mans gift to him. I'll have him send a card.

 OK, I was speaking straight and did not intend to offend anyone.

 I do really hate people who find joy in abusing or humiliating others - be they policemen or anyone else. There is usually a limit in intelligence that a patrollmen is allowed to have in many jurisdictions - smart people get bored with that kind of job.
 I feel revolted seing other people humiliated by whomever.
 You did, BTW, not indicate if those policment behaved in impolite manner which makes quite a difference.

 I do not want scumbags in my police. I do not really want police paid for by my tax money spend any extra time in black neighbourhoods. That "White man's gift" is paid with my money and given to my detriment. If it's not welcome - I would be more than happy to vote for any politician who would stop that. i have some doubts about that - I constantly hear cries for "more police" in those places.
 Would you care to suggest segregatoing police so that blacks are dealing only with black policemen? I'd support you.

 But excuse me if I do not cry you a river because of your hurt feelings. You live in your country and seem to mostly like it. I left a country where I lived for 25 years - because it was really tough. Many people around me - blacks and yellows and browns and whites - are immigrants here in New York. We all came into this "racist", "discriminatory" society because we had real troubles back there - not some dude asking for an ID at the store or checking a driver license.

 I would not feel extra stop by police as the real problem in my life. If that's the biggest worry of you and your son - I can only congratulate you. Do not emigrate to another country.
 If that would really prevent your son from getting as good grades as he can - of couse it will not be your fault but of the overeager policemen.

 miko

Offline miko2d

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« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2002, 05:08:30 PM »
midnight Target: Myth: Social intervention cannot raise IQ.

 So let's hope someone conducts a representative study covering pre-birth through maturity.

 I see clear contradictions with the results in this article.

 How come intelligence differences in whites do not "fade" - intelligence at 6 years old is the best predictor of intelligence at 18 - but the "Head Start" results disappear?

 Nobody argues that it is possible to remove negative effects of malnutrition - bringing abilities to the genetically-determined level. Above that - not much success to show.

 Other results cited there - I can take a guess about few wholes those studies might have had. I may be wrong but without seing the conditions of the study I do not know. I will try to look up the originals.

 Example:
 Socioeconomic status change and IQ of adopted children.
 ...lower or upper class biological parents who had been adopted by lower or upper class homes


 It would be hard for me to believe that the sample babies were truly randomly assigned to parents.
 Wouldn't upper class parents try select the best available babies? Like from a poor misguided girl who might not be ready to start a family, but healthy, good looking, apparently smart and not abusing drugs, alcohol, etc.?
 Poor people have problem with adoption approval. They take what they can - even if they realised implications of the poor choice.
 Wealthy know their adoption will always be approved. They can pick and chose. How many IQ points bias would selection by smart wealthy adoptive parents introduce?


 How would a poor family grab a hold of a baby from an upper class household? France is an extremely egalitarian society. children of wildly varyiing backgrounds get much closer educational environment that in US. So to make a large difference, the lower class should be really, really low. I am surprised there were so many so bad households that were allowed to adopt babies.
 Was there something wrong with the babies to explain upper class parent's willingness to part with them?

Oh, yeah: A few qualifications about the study bear mentioning: the sample size was very small (38 children), and it is unknown exactly how rich or poor the parents were, or what their IQs were. - just 38 children in the study. Unknown parents IQ? Isn't it likely that biological parents from the upper households who have unwanted babies are very likely to be of low intelligence. In fact low-intelligence better that social status predicts if you end up with an unwanted baby.



 How about this:

"The problem, obviously, is that no one knows how to equalize environments upward on so grand a scale, particularly since so much of what goes on in the nurturing of children is associated with the personality and behavior of the parent, not material wealth." (17)
 This is a truly remarkable statement. First of all, it's a political and economic argument, not a biological one. It abandons their original claim that social intervention cannot raise IQs, and now argues that we do not possess the political will or economic ability to do so.


 That's an outright lie. The (17) statement claims that the personality and behavior of the parent are most important, not wealth.
 The artcle's claim "First of all, it's a political and economic argument, not a biological one." seems completely incoherent. How do you equalise upwards parent's personality?
 How do you politically or economically change parent's behavior? Their love of children, interests, reading books to the kids?
 They just plugged usuall socialist slogan for redistribution of wealth without even seeing if it applies.

 Smart people have smart children. Smart people also tend to be wealthier - but even if you make them poor, they will still have smarter children. Wealth (outside of starvation) is not a biggest factor.

 Anyway, thanks for reference. I will look it up time permitting.

 miko
« Last Edit: December 13, 2002, 05:19:33 PM by miko2d »

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #82 on: December 13, 2002, 06:18:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Uhhh, I know that.

But if the statement is true, there has to be some reason for it...no?


Uhhh, yeah.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2002, 10:26:58 AM »
I guess if you are living in a country and that country uses an IQ test that is biased because after 400 years of living in that country you still have your own culture... then the IQ test merely tests how well you will fit in and how well you will do in that society.  If you do poorly then... you should switch gears since it is easier for you to do so as an individual than it is to change society.
lazs