Stupid Question: What's it take to kill a Tiger?

[Vulcan]

Bagged my first Tiger today with a IID... didn't blow him up, just disabled his turret and tracks. Check my score this tour.

Originally posted by GPreddy
Ive killed a few panzers with one 1k bomb. 20m cannon dont seem to have any effect at all and likewise the 40mm on the HurrIID.

[Innominate]

M16s can't kill a tiger, but they can knock the tracks off.

[wulfie]

Originally posted by Pongo
lol
I am refering to villers bocage..where he earned fame in the west. Not where he was killed.
no His Tiger on the day of his rampage against the desert rats was stopped by a flank shot by a 6 pounder...Im looking at a picture of the exact tank and location..dont go there..

And I have read several times that the first time that Brits met Tigers in North africa..they killed them with 6 pounders.
As the introduction of the Tiger in Tunisia predates even the 17 pounder on the jury rigged 25pounder cariage by 4 months. I think it unlikly the 17 pounder was involved.

I am not making this up...killing a tiger from the flank was well within the capabilities of the 6 pounder...You seem to be saying it isnt.

Well part of the miscommunication is my fault - I naturally assumed you meant 'engaged frontally', which was a dumb thing to assume.

6 Pdr. is totally capable of penetrating Pz VIE flanks.

For the North Africa engagement I was referring to, check out 'Osprey - Vanguard #20, The Tiger Tanks'. The British set up an ambush with mines, pre-registered 25 Pdr. artillery, and 17 Pdr. AT guns and hammered a bunch of German MBTs, some of them being Tigers.

Mike/wulfie

[wulfie]

"I am not making this up...killing a tiger from the flank was well within the capabilities of the 6 pounder...You seem to be saying it isnt."

I missed this initially.

You never once mentioned flank attacks before now.

The reason for my assumption (that we were talking about penetration vs. frontal armor) is that any AT gun from the same 'era' penetrating the flank armor of almost any MBT is a 'given' to anyone who has studied the subjects involved. Read: "6 Pdr./75mm/etc. could penetrate Pz VIE flanks? NO toejam SHERLOCK".

I never said the Pz VIE could not be penetrated on its flanks (contrary to what you alluded to). You never made this specification. Your line of 'reasoning' here is akin to someone (i.e. You) saying...

"The Superbowl Champion team could be beaten by the 3 worst team in the NFL".

(intersperse a bunch of discussion, the NFL equivalent to me talking about 17 Pdr. vs. Tiger - which doesn't equal much of a reach when assuming we're talking about 'vs. frontal armor')

...then you come up with the equivalent of "I meant if the Superbowl Champs were playing their 3d string".

I mean - what was the point of your whole input in this discussion? Are you implying that if the opponent is 'smart' enough then frontal armor doesn't matter, because a 'crafty defender can always get attacks vs. the flanks of any MBT'?

This type of reasoning is absurd. If it had anything to do with reality the British would never have rushed the 17 Pdr. into service.

In short - by not specifying 'vs. the flank' - you were making assumptions about the point of the discussion that no one else was.

Also, I think you are operating under 'Pongo's special rules' when discussing 'kills' of AFVs. You 'lol' when I was talking about Wittman's Pz VIE being 'killed' by Fireflies. Why?

In my book (and the book of almost everyone who has researched the subjects involved seriously), a 6 Pdr. flank hit on a Pz VIE that causes immobilization but no crew casualties is a 'mission kill' at best. If you count 'immobilization or other damage resulting in crew abandonment of MBT' then British artillery 'killed' more German MBTs than any British MBT or AT gun in WW2.

Mike/wulfie

[Karnak]

I want the Mosquito FB.Mk XVIII with the 6pdr Mollins gun.